garden advice please

BensGrandad · Feb 12, 2015

Son is raising his back garden and then going to lay turf. At present the ground is very uneven with grass and weed I suggested covering the area with black weed membrane to kill the existing grass etc. He is intending adding some hardcore to help drainage but how deep should the top soil be before laying the turf on top. Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

swindonseagull · Feb 12, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Son is raising his back garden and then going to lay turf. At present the ground is very uneven with grass and weed I suggested covering the area with black weed membrane to kill the existing grass etc. He is intending adding some hardcore to help drainage but how deep should the top soil be before laying the turf on top. Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

As I said in the previous post. Artificial turf is the way ahead. No weeds, no cutting, no moss.

BensGrandad · Feb 12, 2015

I have duplicated this new post so would appreciate a mod merging the two. Many thanks.

Jack Straw · Feb 12, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Son is raising his back garden and then going to lay turf. At present the ground is very uneven with grass and weed I suggested covering the area with black weed membrane to kill the existing grass etc. He is intending adding some hardcore to help drainage but how deep should the top soil be before laying the turf on top. Any sensible advice would be appreciated.

If you've got a minimum of 350mm of reasonable soil over the site and there's no real bad drainage problem, dig the area over to the full depth of a garden fork (not a "lady's" smaller fork), rake the area roughly level, shuffle over the area to firm it a little with your feet, then rake again. If the area is too big, hire a rotovator, and insist on sharp blades. Blunt blades will cause drainage problems due to "panning". Then lay the turf. Job done.
Don't worry about membrane. There's no need for that at all. If you dig or rotovate thoroughly, you won't need hard core. If you're on clay, you could incorporate some sharp gravel, or add lime - the chalky stuff, not the citrus fruit. No need to get rid of weeds as they will disappear in the preparation, unless you've got Japanese Knotweed, in which case you've got a big problem.
If you're raising the existing levels, just make sure you break the current surface, again by a light forking or light rotovating. Add a reasonable top soil. First cover the area with a depth of 100-150mm, fork or rotovate this soil in to the existing soil in order to "join" the two different types of soil up, then add the rest of your soil to the depth you require. Then rake, shuffle, rake and turf.
Hope this helps?

BensGrandad · Feb 12, 2015

Jack Straw said:
If you've got a minimum of 350mm of reasonable soil over the site and there's no real bad drainage problem, dig the area over to the full depth of a garden fork (not a "lady's" smaller fork), rake the area roughly level, shuffle over the area to firm it a little with your feet, then rake again. If the area is too big, hire a rotovator, and insist on sharp blades. Blunt blades will cause drainage problems due to "panning". Then lay the turf. Job done.
Don't worry about membrane. There's no need for that at all. If you dig or rotovate thoroughly, you won't need hard core. If you're on clay, you could incorporate some sharp gravel, or add lime - the chalky stuff, not the citrus fruit. No need to get rid of weeds as they will disappear in the preparation, unless you've got Japanese Knotweed, in which case you've got a big problem.
Hope this helps?

Thanks for the advice but should he spray the area with a long lasting weedkiller like Sodium Chlorate. He was going to get a gardener in but he said it would cost over £1200 and the grass wouldnt be any good for this summet for the children to play on

vegster · Feb 12, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Thanks for the advice but should he spray the area with a long lasting weedkiller like Sodium Chlorate. He was going to get a gardener in but he said it would cost over £1200 and the grass wouldnt be any good for this summet for the children to play on

NO No No ! Grass is a natural weedkiller if looked after. Only grass can flourish if you mow it regularly and use a little Feed and Weed.

jevs · Feb 12, 2015

Listen to Jack Straw's advice and you'll be fine. The only thing i'd do differently is to spray any perennial weeds such as daisies or dandilions with a Glyphosate based weedkiller such as Roundup (other trade names are available including supermarkets home brand). This will get into the roots and kill all the weed, whereas if you just dig it in, or rotorvate it, you might just spread it around.

KZNSeagull · Feb 12, 2015

jevs said:
Listen to Jack Straw's advice and you'll be fine. The only thing i'd do differently is to spray any perennial weeds such as daisies or dandilions with a Glyphosate based weedkiller such as Roundup (other trade names are available including supermarkets home brand). This will get into the roots and kill all the weed, whereas if you just dig it in, or rotorvate it, you might just spread it around.

Glyphosate kills grass too, so I would be careful using that as it can hang around in the soil for a while.

Jack Straw · Feb 12, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Thanks for the advice but should he spray the area with a long lasting weedkiller like Sodium Chlorate. He was going to get a gardener in but he said it would cost over £1200 and the grass wouldnt be any good for this summet for the children to play on

Whatever you do, don't use Sodium Chlorate. It was banned under an EU directive a few years ago and if any gardener suggests using it, ditch them. As Jevs suggests, you could use Glyphosate, but if you're turfing, personally I wouldn't bother, and save a few quid. You can always spot-treat with a selective weedkilller later on if any should appear in or through the turf.
How many square metres of turf are we talking here, and what is access like for getting any soil/turf to the area?

Dolph Ins · Feb 12, 2015

If he is raising the garden then put in a gravel board edge all round. Easy to level to and makes edging easier. Use glyphosphate (thistles and dandylions will come through). Raising a garden can be expensive. If the lawn is 10m x 10m and you want to raise it 1cm that is 1 cube metre of top soil. Last time I looked that was 60 quid so 10m would be £600 and 200 barrow loads from where the lorry dumps it so if nhe can use what he has got he will save a lot. If he can borrow a landscaping rake he will find levelling a lot easier.

Nice to have a subject on here I know something about.

BensGrandad · Feb 12, 2015

Phoned Jupps and gave them the measurements 24ft x 26ft and they said to go 4in deep will require 6 cu metres £244.
£56 cu mtr but 6 is discounted. The lowest point is about 6in lower than the highest.

HAILSHAM SEAGULL · Feb 12, 2015

BensGrandad said:
Phoned Jupps and gave them the measurements 224ft x 26ft and they said to go 4in deep will require 6 cu metres £244.
£56 cu mtr but 6 is discounted. The lowest point is about 6in lower than the highest.

Am I doing the maths wrongly, or is 224 ft x 26 ft approximately 67metres x 8 metres, making 536 sq metres. Therefore 100mm (4 inches) depth gives 53.6 cubic metres.

BensGrandad · Feb 12, 2015

HAILSHAM SEAGULL said:
Am I doing the maths wrongly, or is 224 ft x 26 ft approximately 67metres x 8 metres, making 536 sq metres. Therefore 100mm (4 inches) depth gives 53.6 cubic metres.

Thanks for that I put 224 when it should have been 24

matbha · Feb 12, 2015

Its very simple ,level area and rough up to create a key ,turf will grow on any ground if well irrigated ,wait for weeds to push through and kill with a selective weedkiller ,most good turf is grown in good topsoil ,so it has had a great start !!

swindonseagull · Feb 12, 2015

Mustafa said:
I think this is really selfish, like people who pave over their gardens.

Each and every garden has the potential of harbouring thousands of species of life - many vital for the ecosystem. Not to mention you would be doing your bit to reduce CO2 levels.

Rubbish....my garden is very wet, meaning the grass was always mossy and during the winter turned to mud, due to trees it never got any sunlight, since laying the Artificial turf we now have an area we can use again. ( we tried for years to grow grass from seed and turf)

LamieRobertson · Feb 13, 2015

KZNSeagull said:
Glyphosate kills grass too, so I would be careful using that as it can hang around in the soil for a while.

Correct..... i find Verdone is good to use on grass

jevs · Feb 13, 2015

KZNSeagull said:
Glyphosate kills grass too, so I would be careful using that as it can hang around in the soil for a while.

It will only kill what it touches and Glyphosate is inactive in soil very quickly....maximum 7 days. I use it on my plant borders and on the allotment.....i've even used it to kill invasive species of water plants in fully stocked ornamental ponds. According to all the safety data sheets available, there is no residual effect at all.

LamieRobertson · Feb 13, 2015

jevs said:
It will only kill what it touches and Glyphosate is inactive in soil very quickly....maximum 7 days. I use it on my plant borders and on the allotment.....i've even used it to kill invasive species of water plants in fully stocked ornamental ponds. According to all the safety data sheets available, there is no residual effect at all.

Hard to only apply it to only weeds on a lawn

jevs · Feb 13, 2015

LamieRobertson said:
Hard to only apply it to only weeds on a lawn

The idea is to apply the weedkiller before you lay the new lawn, before you dig it all up, before you rotorvate all the dandelion roots up, before you add any top soil.....spray off the existing weeds to kill roots etc then go ahead and sort the new lawn out :facepalm:

LamieRobertson · Feb 13, 2015

jevs said:
The idea is to apply the weedkiller before you lay the new lawn, before you dig it all up, before you rotorvate all the dandelion roots up, before you add any top soil.....spray off the existing weeds to kill roots etc then go ahead and sort the new lawn out

That lot wasn't on the post I was referring too

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