Rules question

Official Old Man · Feb 8, 2015

Following the African Cup Final here's a rules question to ponder.
The Ivory Coast keeper seemed to feign injury during the penalty shoot out which went down to the 11th kick, that being the keepers taking the kicks. The Ghana keeper missed so the Ivory keeper only had to score to win the cup but again seemed to feign injury.
The question. Had he not been able to take his kick either through injury or being sent off what would happen? I guess that the Ghana miss would be scrapped and they would skip the 11th shot and return to the 1st player.
Comments.

carteater · Feb 8, 2015

All I know is that, that goalkeeper was acting like a complete ****

Everest · Feb 8, 2015

If a goalkeeper is injured DURING the penalties, then he may be replaced by a named sub, as long as they haven't used the permitted number. The keeper can be replaced by an outfield player at ANY time during the kicks after the ref is notified.
If he is sent off, he can only be replaced by one of the players who finished the game.

If any player is sent off or injured during penalties, then they carry on as normal (alternate penalties). The teams only have to have an equal number of players at the start of the penalties. After everyone has taken a pen, the same sequence of takers does not have to be followed.

If one team goes down to less than seven players during this time, then the ref does NOT stop the match.

Philzo-93 · Feb 8, 2015

Everest said:
If a goalkeeper is injured DURING the penalties, then he may be replaced by a named sub, as long as they haven't used the permitted number. The keeper can be replaced by an outfield player at ANY time during the kicks after the ref is notified.
If he is sent off, he can only be replaced by one of the players who finished the game.

If any player is sent off or injured during penalties, then they carry on as normal (alternate penalties). The teams only have to have an equal number of players at the start of the penalties. After everyone has taken a pen, the same sequence of takers does not have to be followed.

If one team goes down to less than seven players during this time, then the ref does NOT stop the match.

Well explained.

Also they're Laws not rules!

Everest · Feb 8, 2015

Philzo-93 said:
Well explained.

Also they're Laws not rules!

Bugger, I knew I'd miss something out.

sully · Feb 9, 2015

Noticed that the explanation says they must have equal numbers at the start of the shoot out. Does that mean if one team has had 2 sent off during the game, the other side can only have 9 penalty takers? If so, does one have to be the goalkeeper?

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

sully said:
Noticed that the explanation says they must have equal numbers at the start of the shoot out. Does that mean if one team has had 2 sent off during the game, the other side can only have 9 penalty takers? If so, does one have to be the goalkeeper?

The number of penalty takers must be equal at the start of the penalties.
Any player that was on the field (or temporarily off it) at full time can take a penalty.

So if one team had two players sent off before full time, then both teams can only use any nine players for the pens.
The two players not nominated to take a pen must leave the field of play.
The keeper would normally be one of the takers so he can go in goal for the other team's pens, but it is not law.

Official Old Man · Feb 9, 2015

Everest said:
If a goalkeeper is injured DURING the penalties, then he may be replaced by a named sub, as long as they haven't used the permitted number. The keeper can be replaced by an outfield player at ANY time during the kicks after the ref is notified.
If he is sent off, he can only be replaced by one of the players who finished the game.

If any player is sent off or injured during penalties, then they carry on as normal (alternate penalties). The teams only have to have an equal number of players at the start of the penalties. After everyone has taken a pen, the same sequence of takers does not have to be followed.

So my point was that at the time Ghana had taken 11 penalties and Ivory Coast 10. The Ivory coast keeper was to take the 11th. What if he was unable to. They had used all subs and all players had taken a pen so who would take the last pen?

tubby · Feb 9, 2015

If a player is injured or sent off during the taking of kicks from the penalty mark and the team has one player fewer, the referee should not reduce the number of players taking kicks for the other team. An equal number of players from each team is required only at the start of the taking of kicks from the penalty mark

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

I remember the good times said:
So my point was that at the time Ghana had taken 11 penalties and Ivory Coast 10. The Ivory coast keeper was to take the 11th. What if he was unable to. They had used all subs and all players had taken a pen so who would take the last pen?

I would presume any of the others that had already taken one.
BUT if the score was still level afterwards, I very much doubt if the keeper would be allowed to carry on, so one of the others would have to go in goal.

sully · Feb 9, 2015

Everest said:
The number of penalty takers must be equal at the start of the penalties.
Any player that was on the field (or temporarily off it) at full time can take a penalty.

So if one team had two players sent off before full time, then both teams can only use any nine players for the pens.
The two players not nominated to take a pen must leave the field of play.
The keeper would normally be one of the takers so he can go in goal for the other team's pens, but it is not law.

Thanks. I never knew any of that.

JCL - the new kid in town · Feb 9, 2015

I have a laws question that occurred to me when watching a team time waste.

If a ball goes out for a throw in but no player goes to take it then the ref can't book anyone for time wasting? can the ref order a player to take it?

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

I suppose he could order the captain to get someone to take it.
Time would then be added on, plus the ref would probably mention it in his report.

I hope there is also a law that the throw could be given to the opposition in this instance, but I'm not holding my breath with that.

Eeyore · Feb 9, 2015

Being a Rugby Union fan, I am rather influenced by what I see as sensible rulings.

I like the sin-bin idea, there are so many attacking situations that are broken by someone taking 'one for the team'.

Also, time wasting could be punished by the stopping of the clock. Games could have a absolute end, with a clock that times down in the ground.

These are probably unrealistic, but had we been born into such a set up I doubt whether we would be questioning them.

BensGrandad · Feb 9, 2015

Everest said:
Philzo-93 said:

Also they're Laws not rules!

Click to expand...

of which there are 17 laws and law 14 relates to penalties but individual leagues etc may set their own rules within the guidlines of the laws.

I would think, but not certain that a competition can say who can and cant take a penalty like exclude keepers if they wished as penalty shoot outs arent covered in the laws I dont think. They have only been in place for FA Cup ties for a few years because there used to be numerous replays to find the winner until the police objected as they couldnt arrange the overtime to police the games.

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

BensGrandad said:
I would think, but not certain that a competition can say who can and cant take a penalty like exclude keepers if they wished as penalty shoot outs arent covered in the laws I dont think. They have only been in place for FA Cup ties for a few years because there used to be numerous replays to find the winner until the police objected as they couldnt arrange the overtime to police the games.

No actual law number, but...
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/foo...7_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf
Page 54 Procedures to Determine the Winner of a Match

BensGrandad · Feb 9, 2015

Everest said:
No actual law number, but...
http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/foo...7_06_2014_new--lawsofthegameweben_neutral.pdf
Page 54 Procedures to Determine the Winner of a Match

That says eligible players but does not define an eligible player other than being on the pitch at the time of the final whistle. It also says players take a 2nd kick after all eligible players have taken one. But again shows no definition of eligible players could I say eg he cant take a kick because he has hurt his foot and isnt fit, is he still eligible? Could a competition state that the only eligible players to take a kick are outfield players?

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

BensGrandad said:
That says eligible players but does not define an eligible player other than being on the pitch at the time of the final whistle. It also says players take a 2nd kick after all eligible players have taken one. But again shows no definition of eligible players could I say eg he cant take a kick because he has hurt his foot and isnt fit, is he still eligible? Could a competition state that the only eligible players to take a kick are outfield players?

What's hard to understand?

only players who are ON the field of play at the end of the match,
which includes extra time where appropriate,
are eligible to take kicks from the penalty mark

Associations are allowed to change the rules of each competition that they see fit
e.g. The away goals in the COCup only count AFTER extra time.

The bit about the keeper being injured has been covered earlier in the thread.

Official Old Man · Feb 9, 2015

Everest said:
The bit about the keeper being injured has been covered earlier in the thread.

Sorry to be a pain, but it hasn't. Keeping specifically to the African Final, the final kick was to be taken by the Ivory keeper who may have been injured or could have been sent off. He had to score to win the cup. So they get a replacement, at a guess I'd expect them to nominate their top marksman at which point Ghana would say "wait a minute". Again my guess is that the Ghana miss, penalty number 11, would be nullified and they would start again from player 1 but is that the law?
PS read the laws, page 54, and it does not cover this.

Everest · Feb 9, 2015

I couldn't tell you that bit.
As the penalty had been scored, would the ref then be able to chalk it off?
If it was a normal penalty during the course of the game, the ref could order it to be retaken for an offence (until such time as the game has restarted).

If the ref suspects that it was all done on purpose, then would he be able to chalk it off?
Would he book the keeper?

I blame FIFA. Always cocking up the game.

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