Question for openreach or such like

bha100 · Jan 27, 2015

Can you tell me please what work is actually involved when providers speak of ' installing a new line'

The reason i ask is i have a perfectly good working line with sky and when i looked into changing providers to talktalk they told me i need a new line installed.

I spoke to them and asked what was wrong with the one i have and can you explain what you would do to install a new line, she just gave me a load of waffle that made no sense.

So if i let them install this new line that they speak of do i expect to see someone up a telegraph pole running a new line to my property or do they just pull out one plug for another at the exchange or cabinet and make an excessive charge for it.

willyfantastic · Jan 27, 2015

Sky use LLU (I don't know what that means) BT don't - so I can understand why they might have to do work

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

bha100 said:
Can you tell me please what work is actually involved when providers speak of ' installing a new line'

The reason i ask is i have a perfectly good working line with sky and when i looked into changing providers to talktalk they told me i need a new line installed.

I spoke to them and asked what was wrong with the one i have and can you explain what you would do to install a new line, she just gave me a load of waffle that made no sense.

So if i let them install this new line that they speak of do i expect to see someone up a telegraph pole running a new line to my property or do they just pull out one plug for another at the exchange or cabinet and make an excessive charge for it.

You will already have a line as your internet / phone with Sky will be using it. There is a remote chance that Talk Talk think the quality of the line is poor and thus needs replacing for them to be able to provide the speed of internet they might have promised you.

Overall though, they're talking bollocks - a copper telephone line is a copper telephone line whomever you pay for it.

Can you post their reasoning for new line - the technical bit is important.

danielson81 · Jan 27, 2015

In English it means they want to charge for an Openreach engineer to move a cable from the Sky LLU equipment in the exchange to the TalkTalk LLU equipment in the exchange.

Iggle Piggle · Jan 27, 2015

In a nutshell its bollox. If

(1) Its Voice and Broadband, you will need a MAC code to move the service to them and you might experience a brief outage if they can move you directly on the Talk Talk Network, which unless you live rurally is probable in 90% of cases (think later this year, you don't even need a MAC code)
(2) If its homephone only they should be able to move you onto the Talk Talk network and just put CPS (carrier pre select) over the top of the existing openreach line which effectively makes calls via the Talk Talk network rather than BT network

If you do need a new line (unlikely) it then all depends on the age of your property. I had a 2nd line installed and being around 10 years old it was all terminated at my front door. In an older property it will be different and in all probability more problematic.

Iggle Piggle · Jan 27, 2015

willyfantastic said:
Sky use LLU (I don't know what that means) BT don't - so I can understand why they might have to do work

LLU is Local loop unbundling. In English it means that Sky, Talk Talk or whoever have 'control' over the line as opposed to BT in the telephone exchange. The reason I put control in inverted commas is that BT openreach will still own the line from the exchange to your house in most cases meaning that any fault from the exchange to your house is with BT. People often leave their broadband provider because of poor download rates or whatever. If they are miles from the exchange or on a naff bit of copper it won't change no matter whom you are with as you your broadband speed is only as quick as its slowest point.

bha100 · Jan 27, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
You will already have a line as your internet / phone with Sky will be using it. There is a remote chance that Talk Talk think the quality of the line is poor and thus needs replacing for them to be able to provide the speed of internet they might have promised you.

Overall though, they're talking bollocks - a copper telephone line is a copper telephone line whomever you pay for it.

Can you post their reasoning for new line - the technical bit is important.

she said a lot of nothing, i don't really think she knows either, it's to send an engineer around to set up the broadband she said then when pressed said they may have to do some work at the cabinet not long after that i gave up.

So really the answer is not a lot goes into the installing a new line if you already have one that is working perfectly but they just tell you that just in case they do have to do something.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

bha100 said:
she said a lot of nothing, i don't really think she knows either, it's to send an engineer around to set up the broadband she said then when pressed said they may have to do some work at the cabinet not long after that i gave up.

So really the answer is not a lot goes into the installing a new line if you already have one that is working perfectly but they just tell you that just in case they do have to do something.

In which case you should tell them there should be no charges to move to them apart from maybe a small admin charge to send someone out to install the router and that if they don't agree you'll be looking elsewhere.

bha100 · Jan 27, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
In which case you should tell them there should be no charges to move to them apart from maybe a small admin charge to send someone out to install the router and that if they don't agree you'll be looking elsewhere.

I thought i'd have another go and i got someone who sounded plausible, true or not i don't no.

Anyway he said if you have a sky phone line it is not compatible with talktalks service as it's configured for them, so they would have to install there own equipment at the exchange, sounds good even if its bull

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

bha100 said:
I thought i'd have another go and i got someone who sounded plausible, true or not i don't no.

Anyway he said if you have a sky phone line it is not compatible with talktalks service as it's configured for them, so they would have to install there own equipment at the exchange, sounds good even if its bull

He's talking about the unbundling others have mentioned. So in basic terms, the phone line from your house is fine ( 'not compatible' is a load of rubbish ) but it currently plugs into the Sky equipment at the exchange and Talk Talk need to send someone to unplug it in the exchange and plug it into the Talk Talk equipment. That's a tad over simplified but it will do for now. Personally I think that is a cost Talk Talk should absorb given it's the cost of getting a new customer. What is the charge they are asking for ? Virgin only ask for £50 to install fibre to your home so anything more than around £20 would seem a rip off to me.

Springal · Jan 27, 2015

A lot of uninformed people here.

The reason being, you are moving LLU providers, which means 're-patching' needs to be done, by BT Openreach, in the exchange or cabinet, to move your line from one providers network to another.

Thanks to Ofcom, BT Openreach, charge £125 or something, to whoever you are moving to (whether that is BT Retail, Sky, Talk Talk) and there is no way this fee can be waived onto the supplier, so of course they pass this on.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

Springal said:
A lot of uninformed people here.

The reason being, you are moving LLU providers, which means 're-patching' needs to be done, by BT Openreach, in the exchange or cabinet, to move your line from one providers network to another.

Thanks to Ofcom, BT Openreach, charge £125 or something, to whoever you are moving to (whether that is BT Retail, Sky, Talk Talk) and there is no way this fee can be waived onto the supplier, so of course they pass this on.

Partly right - the end supplier has no obligation under Ofcom rules to pass the charge on. Most suppliers absorb the charge AND they get a massive discount on the £125 standard charge from BTOR.

bha100 · Jan 27, 2015

Springal said:
A lot of uninformed people here.

The reason being, you are moving LLU providers, which means 're-patching' needs to be done, by BT Openreach, in the exchange or cabinet, to move your line from one providers network to another.

Thanks to Ofcom, BT Openreach, charge £125 or something, to whoever you are moving to (whether that is BT Retail, Sky, Talk Talk) and there is no way this fee can be waived onto the supplier, so of course they pass this on.

so the 're-patching' is the technical term for installing a new line then.

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

bha100 said:
so the 're-patching' is the technical term for installing a new line then.

Kind of but it's no more difficult than unplugging a plug in your sitting room and then plugging back into a socket in your kitchen. Hence why most suppliers don't charge for it. A new line would involve a new wire from your house to the telegrapgh pole.

bha100 · Jan 27, 2015

Westdene Seagull said:
Kind of but it's no more difficult than unplugging a plug in your sitting room and then plugging back into a socket in your kitchen. Hence why most suppliers don't charge for it. A new line would involve a new wire from your house to the telegrapgh pole.

Ok tar. will call sky and tell em im leaving and see what they come up with.

father_and_son · Jan 27, 2015

bha100 said:
Can you tell me please what work is actually involved when providers speak of ' installing a new line'

The reason i ask is i have a perfectly good working line with sky and when i looked into changing providers to talktalk they told me i need a new line installed.

I spoke to them and asked what was wrong with the one i have and can you explain what you would do to install a new line, she just gave me a load of waffle that made no sense.

So if i let them install this new line that they speak of do i expect to see someone up a telegraph pole running a new line to my property or do they just pull out one plug for another at the exchange or cabinet and make an excessive charge for it.

From personal experience I'd add one thing to the comments above. A few years ago I had BT re-installed after the previous occupant had Virgin. When Virgin had put their own connectors in the flat, they severed the BT line in a couple of places so that the old BT boxes would be unusable in the future (something the BT engineer told me happens a lot). Because of the work, it ended up costing me more to have the line fitted as it went from a "switch on fee" to a "new installation fee" (I can't recall the exact terminology they used). [I must have looked doubtful so he did go out of his way to show me with one of those electronic cable trackers where the signal dropped]

I mentioned this to a friend who made a switch back the other way and his BT engineer (according to the Virgin one) had done exactly the same thing.

This makes me think this is quite common and were I to change again, I would be very explicit that the existing (albeit unused) wiring was to be left intact and would be watching over the engineer to make sure that he doesn't maliciously damage stuff!

Fungus · Jan 27, 2015

Is Sky really bad, or is Talk Talk really cheap? Is this really a good move?

BensGrandad · Jan 27, 2015

My son has talktalk broadband what does he need to do or get to have wifi.

jackanada · Jan 27, 2015

BensGrandad said:
My son has talktalk broadband what does he need to do or get to have wifi.

As you claim to be a Grandad I shall bite my tongue.

Your son doesnt need to do anything. You should probably leave him to it. :wrong:

Westdene Seagull · Jan 27, 2015

BensGrandad said:
My son has talktalk broadband what does he need to do or get to have wifi.

I'd be very surprised if his Talk Talk router didn't have it already built in. Does he really plug his PC directly into the router ?

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