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O/T Question regarding Work Training outside normal working hours.



M

Mellor 3 Ward 4

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2004
9,812
saaf of the water
Good Morning all, and Happy New Year.

Quick question please.

My wife works in the public sector for a local Council. Back in September she was told that she would be required to undertake training over three weekends in the first quarter of 2015, for which she would either be paid, or she could take time off in lieu. No problem. The training is compulsory, and is required for her to continue in her role.

They asked her if there were any dates that she would not be available, and she provided these some months ago.

Just before Christmas, she was informed when the training would be, and two of the dates selected are for dates which she had already informed them that said she was unavailable.

She went back and informed them of this, and now they are asking why exactly she cannot attend, in other words what are her specific reasons for not being able to attend.

Do they have the right to do this?

What's the difference between having a holiday booked, attending a wedding, child care issues, previously purchased theatre tickets, football matches etc???

She wants and needs to do the training, but wants to know where she stands.

Thanks.
 




Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
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Apr 30, 2013
13,788
Herts
I would say no, they don't have the right to know why she can't make those two weekend dates. If they booked the training for a normal weekday, they could decline her holiday request, but that's not the case here.

Sounds to me that they're just applying pressure. Up to her to decide whether she wants to play ball or not...
 


Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,843
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Organising training for a group of people can be an absolute nightmare and often it is impossible to accommodate everyone in regards to unavailable dates. It is reasonable to ask why particular dates can't be made so that priorities can be sorted. For instance if the trainee has a prebooked holiday, wedding, school holidays etc. whilst others just want particular days off for no specific reason then it is reasonable to ask the latter group if they could be flexible in their dates.
 


Beach Hut

Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,970
Living In a Box
Given it is public sector is your wife in a union ?

If so how about consulting them about this.
 






Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
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Apr 30, 2013
13,788
Herts
Creaky said:
Organising training for a group of people can be an absolute nightmare and often it is impossible to accommodate everyone in regards to unavailable dates. It is reasonable to ask why particular dates can't be made so that priorities can be sorted. For instance if the trainee has a prebooked holiday, wedding, school holidays etc. whilst others just want particular days off for no specific reason then it is reasonable to ask the latter group if they could be flexible in their dates.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's reasonable to ask whether she can be flexible, but that's not the same as wanting to know what she's doing so that they can decide for her whether she attends the training on that day or not.

It would also be good practice and polite to preface the request for flexibility with "I know that you said that you can't do these dates, but it's an absolute mare trying to get suitable dates for everyone. Is there any chance...."
 


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,024
The arse end of Hangleton
Bit of grey area but it will revolve around what her contract says. If it's something non committal such as 'you will occasionally be required to undertake training and work outside your contracted hours' without specifying the conditions for this then she should tell them, politely, to mind their own business and that she had already told them the dates she wasn't available. They have no legal right to know why she isn't available outside her contracted hours.
 


Creaky

Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,843
Hookwood - Nr Horley
Westdene Seagull said:
Bit of grey area but it will revolve around what her contract says. If it's something non committal such as 'you will occasionally be required to undertake training and work outside your contracted hours' without specifying the conditions for this then she should tell them, politely, to mind their own business and that she had already told them the dates she wasn't available. They have no legal right to know why she isn't available outside her contracted hours.
Click to expand...

That's how some of the care workers at my wife's company responded in similar circumstances - the company's response was quite simple, they delayed their training to the following year which meant that some missed out on promotion chances because they hadn't completed the training!
 




Goldstone1976

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
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Apr 30, 2013
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Herts
Creaky said:
That's how some of the care workers at my wife's company responded in similar circumstances - the company's response was quite simple, they delayed their training to the following year which meant that some missed out on promotion chances because they hadn't completed the training!
Click to expand...

Yep, that's the possible downside of not playing ball...
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,577
The Fatherland
Mellor 3 Ward 4 said:
Good Morning all, and Happy New Year.

Quick question please.

My wife works in the public sector for a local Council. Back in September she was told that she would be required to undertake training over three weekends in the first quarter of 2015, for which she would either be paid, or she could take time off in lieu. No problem. The training is compulsory, and is required for her to continue in her role.

They asked her if there were any dates that she would not be available, and she provided these some months ago.

Just before Christmas, she was informed when the training would be, and two of the dates selected are for dates which she had already informed them that said she was unavailable.

She went back and informed them of this, and now they are asking why exactly she cannot attend, in other words what are her specific reasons for not being able to attend.

Do they have the right to do this?

What's the difference between having a holiday booked, attending a wedding, child care issues, previously purchased theatre tickets, football matches etc???

She wants and needs to do the training, but wants to know where she stands.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Knowing where you stand is one thing but I'd go and see the person asking the questions, with the correspondence about the dates she is unavailable, and politely explain the situation. It seems like there's been a cock-up, such things happen. Unless the person asking is a bit of knob 9/10 issues like this can be resolved to mutual satisfaction if both people are willing to work together and respectful. I can't be doing with conflict at work regardless of who is right or wrong and always take a friendly approach initially.

Good luck as it's a pain when this happens. It has happened to me and I only found out after a boss sent a bitchy email about me taking "unrequested" leave to me by mistake.
 
Last edited:


Westdene Seagull

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patron
Oct 27, 2003
21,024
The arse end of Hangleton
Creaky said:
That's how some of the care workers at my wife's company responded in similar circumstances - the company's response was quite simple, they delayed their training to the following year which meant that some missed out on promotion chances because they hadn't completed the training!
Click to expand...

If my company did that to me I'd going down the formal grievance route.
 




Bry Nylon

Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
19,853
Playing snooker
Creaky said:
Organising training for a group of people can be an absolute nightmare and often it is impossible to accommodate everyone in regards to unavailable dates.
Click to expand...

Very true. When I recently signed up for a course of Yoga for beginners, the instructor asked how flexible I am.
I said I can't do Tuesdays or Thursdays.
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,312
of course they have no right to ask for reasons, but they are probably in the position they need to justify why the provided dates arent good enough, to see if they can create a new session, or its just people putting it on. because there will be a number of people being bloody minded and wanting to avoid the training.
 


tedebear

tedebear

Legal Alien
Jul 7, 2003
16,841
In my computer
How was it was left when they asked her the first time, did they say they will "try" and avoid those dates, or that they would have to go with the majority who are attending the course, or is she booked on on her own? Has she asked why the courses were booked on the dates she'd advised she was unavailable?

If the training is mandatory to continue in this role, the council have an obligation to train her. The fact she was asked when she was and wasn't available gives the impression that unavailable dates would be avoided. Which is back to my first question - was she told they would be avoided or not?

Too much ambiguity for a decision on this one yet I think...
 




T

TonyW

New member
Feb 11, 2004
2,525
If she doesn't normally work weekends then she doesn't even have to attend the training, let alone tell them why she's not going.
 




T

TonyW

New member
Feb 11, 2004
2,525
Then they are obliged to schedule the training for a weekday.
Assuming she isn't contracted to work weekends.
 






Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
TonyW said:
If she doesn't normally work weekends then she doesn't even have to attend the training, let alone tell them why she's not going.
Click to expand...
And "they" will have every "right" to treat her continuing employment in the light of the fact that she is not fully trained and qualified to do the work that is expected of her.

Seriously ... It seems to me that the best way through this problem is for her to follow all available informal channels and enter into sensible conversations aimed at finding a reasonable outcome. Climbing on to a legalistic hobby horse and exploring what the wording of the contract of employment means or doesn't mean is a recipe for unnecessary trouble.
 




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