Kaz substitution

kevo · Nov 29, 2014

Another moan I'm afraid... but what was going on with this?

Kaz goes down, the physio treats him off the pitch, he tries to get back up but collapses again. I imagine he thought he might be OK and was keen to continue, but surely the physio could see he was in no state to do so?

When he gets back on the pitch he limps around for about a minute before signalling several times to the bench and the physio that he needs to come off. His signals are ignored until he collapses again. For some reason, no-one had thought that he might need to be subbed, so we played for a good few minutes with only ten men.

The whole thing was a bit of a shambles and I couldn't help thinking it's indicative of how things are at the moment. Surely anyone could tell he wasn't able to carry on, why wasn't the physio communicating with the bench and why on earth hadn't they already told Ince to start warming up?

Max Paper · Nov 29, 2014

I thought it was only about a minute or two?

disgruntled h blocker · Nov 29, 2014

Multiple issues I think. Firstly there was not a break in play to give the opportunity for the sub to come on, and the second main issue is aligned with the old story of the "boy who cried wolf"

kevo · Nov 29, 2014

Max Paper said:
I thought it was only about a minute or two?

Point is, when a player is obviously badly injured and looks like he might have to come off, you tell his replacement to start getting ready. There was no communication.

el_ciddy · Nov 29, 2014

Yeah it wasn't long, our team wanted to play with ten with Ince stood ready on the sideline to come on instead of giving it to Gardner to have another hopeless long range effort.

Hornblower · Nov 29, 2014

disgruntled h blocker said:
Multiple issues I think. Firstly there was not a break in play to give the opportunity for the sub to come on, and the second main issue is aligned with the old story of the "boy who cried wolf"

I agree with the op, KLL may have a few (dirty) tricks up his sleeve but I've never seen him feign an injury other than to win a free kick. We could all see that he was suffering but the bench did nothing.

BensGrandad · Nov 29, 2014

I thought that it was done to allow a sub time to warm up a little and not pull a ham string.

penny's harmonica · Nov 29, 2014

Kaz clearly wanted to continue so was given the chance.

Why solly didn't replace him is another matter. Ince for Kaz left me a bit confused.

clippedgull · Nov 29, 2014

From my view in ESU.

The physio was communicating into his radio thingy with someone, or at least attempting too.

I think Kaz came back onto the field and forced another stoppage as that was the shortest way back to the tunnel!

As for lack of activity on the bench, that was strange!

DarrenFreemansPerm · Nov 29, 2014

penny's harmonica said:
Kaz clearly wanted to continue so was given the chance.

Why solly didn't replace him is another matter. Ince for Kaz left me a bit confused.

I'd imagine there was cock all chance of him completing 70 minutes.

Lifelong Supporter · Nov 29, 2014

I thought at the time of his injury Fulham were carving through our midfield rather well and Ince was brought on to try and counter this. It seemed pretty clear when the teams were announced that we were short in central midfield and this was proved to be the case.

Questions · Nov 29, 2014

disgruntled h blocker said:
Multiple issues I think. Firstly there was not a break in play to give the opportunity for the sub to come on, and the second main issue is aligned with the old story of the "boy who cried wolf"

He was rolling his hands - the universal sign that he needs to be subbed- so why the coaching team couldn't have got the sub ready is beyond me.

BBassic · Nov 29, 2014

I'm in the ESL and was right in front of the whole thing.

He went down, signalled to the bench, at the next break the physio was on and got him off the pitch. Kaz told the physio he was done but the ref waved him back on. He was then subbed.

Either the ref or the physio didn't do his job, Kaz was quite clear about needing to come off.

Giraffe · Nov 29, 2014

Completely agree. It was clear to me the Physio and Kaz were saying he couldn't continue.

The truth is it took Sami and Jones far too long to decide who to bring on.

It was the moment when I edged toward the Hyypia out camp. I then heard his post match interview and was convinced he has to go.

Motogull · Nov 29, 2014

penny's harmonica said:
Kaz clearly wanted to continue so was given the chance.

No, it was right in front of me. He was making 'sub me' gestures as soon as he stood up on the touchline. I thought he was okay when he went back on, but on reflection I think [MENTION=451]BensGrandad[/MENTION] was right about delaying the change there.

penny's harmonica said:
Why solly didn't replace him is another matter. Ince for Kaz left me a bit confused.

With you on that one. Disagree with [MENTION=17389]DarrenFreemansPerm[/MENTION]. If you are fit enough for the bench, you are fit enough for a match.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Nov 29, 2014

Motogull said:
Disagree with [MENTION=17389]DarrenFreemansPerm[/MENTION]. If you are fit enough for the bench, you are fit enough for a match.

Don't be naive. Was Ronaldo fit to play the 98 World Cup final? Was Diego Costa fit to play the 2013/14 Champions League final? Many players have been included over the years that haven't been fit enough, the fact is Solly hasn't played in a competitive match in months, I'd imagine his inclusion was with the intention of a brief cameo, not a near full match.

Motogull · Nov 29, 2014

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
Don't be naive. Was Ronaldo fit to play the 98 World Cup final? Was Diego Costa fit to play the 2013/14 Champions League final? Many players have been included over the years that haven't been fit enough, the fact is Solly hasn't played in a competitive match in months, I'd imagine his inclusion was with the intention of a brief cameo, not a near full match.

But you never know what will happen. Not fully fit subs is too risky in my view. Solly is not the player to us that the other you mention were.

5mins-from-amex · Nov 29, 2014

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
Don't be naive. Was Ronaldo fit to play the 98 World Cup final? Was Diego Costa fit to play the 2013/14 Champions League final? Many players have been included over the years that haven't been fit enough, the fact is Solly hasn't played in a competitive match in months, I'd imagine his inclusion was with the intention of a brief cameo, not a near full match.

You can add Beckham in the 2002 world cup too.

Monsieur Le Plonk · Nov 29, 2014

DarrenFreemansPerm said:
I'd imagine there was cock all chance of him completing 70 minutes.

Shouldn't be on the bench.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Nov 29, 2014

Monsieur Le Plonk said:
Shouldn't be on the bench.

See my previous answers to this objection.

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