UKIP MP number 2 coming up.

Lord Bracknell · Nov 19, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
The idea is to issue work permits so those who make a contribution to society are welcome and at the same time weed out those who simply arrive with the intention of living off the state for the rest off their lives.

The first version of Reckless's statement said that the work permits would be time limited - in other words, forced repatriation would be a phased process. Then, once it came out that this was classic BNP policy, he backtracked and the UKIP spindoctors came up with a more carefully worded version.

The fact is, though, that UKIP is wanting to appeal to the basest instincts of those people who define their own politics by the sentence "I'm no fascist, but ..." This muddled approach to policy making works perfectly for them.

piersa · Nov 19, 2014

Lord Bracknell said:
The first version of Reckless's statement said that the work permits would be time limited - in other words, forced repatriation would be a phased process. Then, once it came out that this was classic BNP policy, he backtracked and the UKIP spindoctors came up with a more carefully worded version.

The fact is, though, that UKIP is wanting to appeal to the basest instincts of those people who define their own politics by the sentence "I'm no fascist, but ..." This muddled approach to policy making works perfectly for them.

Does it make you a fascist if you want controlled immigration so that our economy benefits in the best possible way?

sten_super · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
Every party has good and bad in it. It is my belief that the current larger parties are of the belief that they can do what they want with impunity. UKIP are an up and coming party who are evolving fast and if people actually gave them some time to explain their policies, it is my belief that a lot of them are logical although uncomfortable for the PC brigade.

If you don't think that Farage, Carswell and Reckless are opportunists just like Clegg, Cameron, Milliband and the rest then I think that you are in for a surprise. They might believe some basic tenet(s) of the party that they are a member of but far more of their drive is career progress, IMHO.

piersa · Nov 19, 2014

sten_super said:
If you don't think that Farage, Carswell and Reckless are opportunists just like Clegg, Cameron, Milliband and the rest then I think that you are in for a surprise. They might believe some basic tenet(s) of the party that they are a member of but far more of their drive is career progress, IMHO.

I would agree with you. Most MPs are greedy selfish people with only their own interests at heart. There are however a few who are doing it for altruistic reasons. They are the ones I have time for. The UKIP representative in Horsham is not in it for himself. He is standing because he wants to help the constituents and is tired of the lies and apathy on the current government. He's a good man.

nicko31 · Nov 19, 2014

sten_super said:
If you don't think that Farage, Carswell and Reckless are opportunists just like Clegg, Cameron, Milliband and the rest then I think that you are in for a surprise. They might believe some basic tenet(s) of the party that they are a member of but far more of their drive is career progress, IMHO.

Anyone who thinks Farage is different from the political establishment is kidding themselves. The one key difference though is a dislike of foreigners, something that strikes a chord with about a quarter of the population.

Has anyone tried contacting Farage's office in relation to European affairs? Try getting on answer...

daveinprague · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
I would agree with you. Most MPs are greedy selfish people with only their own interests at heart. There are however a few who are doing it for altruistic reasons. They are the ones I have time for. The UKIP representative in Horsham is not in it for himself. He is standing because he wants to help the constituents and is tired of the lies and apathy on the current government. He's a good man.

Is that why the Horsham UKIP voters will vote for him, or because of other issues? I would have thought an 'independent' without the baggage that comes with UKIP would serve the constituents of somewhere like Horsham a bit better. Seems like a bit of turd polishing to me.

spring hall convert · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
When will the main parties understand and admit that people have simply had enough of being lied to and deceived?

When people stop voting for them at general elections.

glasfryn · Nov 19, 2014

Uncle C said:
I lived in Brighton almost all my life. Now as a visitor,

1. I cant park easily and when I do it costs a fortune.
2. One way systems that have screwed up the flow of traffic across town.
3. Bus lanes and cycle lanes designed to alienate the private car driver
4. 20mph limits all over town making one afraid to get out of second gear.

So Green it will stop visitors and shoppers from coming to Brighton and the town centre will die.

be careful what you wish for
someone might bring back the tow away squads
now that did stop people coming to Brighton ................and parking just how they liked

Bold Seagull · Nov 19, 2014

Uncle C said:
I lived in Brighton almost all my life. Now as a visitor,

1. I cant park easily and when I do it costs a fortune.

been the case under Labour and Conservative councils - this isn't a uniquely Greens implementation. Fact is there isn't the physical space to park every car.

2. One way systems that have screwed up the flow of traffic across town.

The Greens can't be responsible for all the one way systems in town! What new ones have they actually been responsible for that weren't there already?

3. Bus lanes and cycle lanes designed to alienate the private car driver

But doesn't making it easier to get into town by bus or bike, mean less congestion and more parking availability? More students can safely do routes by bike to Moulscomb and Falmer: I can cycle with my kids from Portslade to Falmer on pretty much cycle lanes all the way safely. We have to realise that the solution isn't to make capacity for more cars, it's make alternatives accessible and safe. Again, there were many cycle and bus lanes in Brighton before the Greens got in.

4. 20mph limits all over town making one afraid to get out of second gear.

Good. Much safer now. What it's actually achieved is everyone doing 30 or under, instead of 30 limits and people doing anything up to 40. Also seems to keep traffic flowing better in my experience as you're not all rushing to the next junction.

So Green it will stop visitors and shoppers from coming to Brighton and the town centre will die.

It has always been difficult to get in and out of Brighton by car over the last couple of decades. It is a massively popular destination, it simply doesn't have the road or parking infrastructure to cope with everyone thinking they can just drive in. By making buses and bikes more convenient and the roads safe, the council are making the right moves to make getting in and out of town easier.

Answered above.

Lord Bracknell · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
Does it make you a fascist if you want controlled immigration so that our economy benefits in the best possible way?

Most potential UKIP voters know nothing about the best way to run the economy. They are attracted to UKIP because they don't like foreigners.

glasfryn · Nov 19, 2014

Bold Seagull said:
Answered above.

absolutely this
I can remember sitting on a bus (5A) at or near the Preston Circus for several hours in traffic jams in the 60's things in Brighton will never get any better and I might say Eastbourne is getting just like that too

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 19, 2014

Lord Bracknell said:
Most potential UKIP voters know nothing about the best way to run the economy. They are attracted to UKIP because they don't like foreigners.

I would say voters are primarily attracted to UKIP because they don't want the EU to dictate what the UK can or cannot do when other member states turn a blind eye to directives.

backson · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
Do you have anything on their one MP?

He used to belong to one of the lying parties?

The Large One · Nov 19, 2014

Uncle C said:
I lived in Brighton almost all my life. Now as a visitor,

1. I cant park easily and when I do it costs a fortune.
2. One way systems that have screwed up the flow of traffic across town.
3. Bus lanes and cycle lanes designed to alienate the private car driver
4. 20mph limits all over town making one afraid to get out of second gear.

So Green it will stop visitors and shoppers from coming to Brighton and the town centre will die.

1. If you can't park easily, doesn't that follow that car parks are full? If you pay a 'fortune', it possibly means you're using the wrong car park.
2. The 'one way system' hasn't changed under the Greens.
3. Bus lanes and cycle lanes are not designed to alienate the car driver. They are designed to move the majority of people around the city.
4. You're actually 'afraid' to get out of in second at 20mph? Blimey. I can quite easily get into third - without fear - when driving in Brighton at 20mph.

Yours is an attitude which all three parties in the city are working hard to accommodate, but are in the process of revising in order for the city to function much better. Priority for cars at the expense of the majority doesn't work. Since 2011, visitor numbers have dramatically increased, shop vacancies are down, road accidents and road deaths are down, and the city centre is as vibrant as ever - if not more so.

If you wish to make it a party-political issue, it's worth remembering all of these measures were instigated under the Conservative-led administration in the city, and approved by all parties. These will continue whoever is in charge after next year's elections. It's not a 'Green Party' issue, it's a city-wide issue. True, we could do with a park-and-ride scheme worthy of the name - and no-one has come up with a satisfactory solution in 30 years.

But if we are making it party-political, the UKIP 'answer' to the 'lycra-clad fascism' is to convert the Level into a car park.

The Large One · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
I would agree with you. Most MPs are greedy selfish people with only their own interests at heart. There are however a few who are doing it for altruistic reasons. They are the ones I have time for. The UKIP representative in Horsham is not in it for himself. He is standing because he wants to help the constituents and is tired of the lies and apathy on the current government. He's a good man.

Interviewed on Radio Five Live, a woman in Clacton - just before the Clacton by-election - was asked why she was voting UKIP.

"Because the Conservative bloke we had before was useless...'

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 19, 2014

The Large One said:
But if we are making it party-political, the UKIP 'answer' to the 'lycra-clad fascism' is to convert the Level into a car park.

Not so bad an idea if it was used as a park and ride site on matchdays.

The Large One · Nov 19, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
Not so bad an idea if it was used as a park and ride site on matchdays.

Was that a serious post, or is my internal humour-meter on the blink?

Simster · Nov 19, 2014

seagullsovergrimsby said:
I would say voters are primarily attracted to UKIP because they don't want the EU to dictate what the UK can or cannot do when other member states turn a blind eye to directives.

Well we should either:
a) turn a blind eye to directives WE don't like, or
b) withhold money until ignored directives are met

There is a reason why economists who are in favour of us remaining in the EU outnumber those who don't by about 300 to 1.

And we should also be focussing our efforts on making the whole thing more accountable. Mind you, personally I disregard anyone who whinges about the lack of accountability of the EU law makers but are happy enough for us to keep a sponging unaccountable Royal family as head of state - as it smacks of utter hypocrisy.

Grombleton · Nov 19, 2014

piersa said:
I would agree with you. Most MPs are greedy selfish people with only their own interests at heart. There are however a few who are doing it for altruistic reasons. They are the ones I have time for. The UKIP representative in Horsham is not in it for himself. He is standing because he wants to help the constituents and is tired of the lies and apathy on the current government. He's a good man.

Believe me; in politics, altruism means nothing.

piersa · Nov 19, 2014

Lord Bracknell said:
Most potential UKIP voters know nothing about the best way to run the economy. They are attracted to UKIP because they don't like foreigners.

One aspect of running the economy is to stop bleeding money on people coming into the country who do not benefit our economy. Would you agree? Yes or no?

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