U21s v Newcastle tonight, feature two trialists.

hans kraay fan club · Oct 20, 2014

Any ideas, folks?

ALBION: Walton (GK); Hunt, Pappoe, Dallison-Lisbon, Starkey; Fenelon, Rea, Harris, Trialist, Trialist, Cole. Subs: Smith (GK), Davis, Wiltshire, Muitt.

Publius Ovidius · Oct 20, 2014

Development squad no doubt...we will be brilliant in 5 years time...or we will have developed them and sold them on to keep us under the FFP radar

mikeyjh · Oct 20, 2014

Saw this thread title, WTF - Is it really a good idea for youngsters to be travelling the length of the country for what really isn't a competitive game!! I thought the FA were getting a grip on youth development and I didn't really take much notice when these fixtures came out (not such a big issue for Derby, when you think about it) but surely some sort or regional structure would make more sense?

Return of the Rev · Oct 20, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Saw this thread title, WTF - Is it really a good idea for youngsters to be travelling the length of the country for what really isn't a competitive game!! I thought the FA were getting a grip on youth development and I didn't really take much notice when these fixtures came out (not such a big issue for Derby, when you think about it) but surely some sort or regional structure would make more sense?

I despair!

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Saw this thread title, WTF - Is it really a good idea for youngsters to be travelling the length of the country for what really isn't a competitive game!! I thought the FA were getting a grip on youth development and I didn't really take much notice when these fixtures came out (not such a big issue for Derby, when you think about it) but surely some sort or regional structure would make more sense?

It is a competitive game. Our U21s are in the Barclays U21 Premier League.

BigGully · Oct 20, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Saw this thread title, WTF - Is it really a good idea for youngsters to be travelling the length of the country for what really isn't a competitive game!! I thought the FA were getting a grip on youth development and I didn't really take much notice when these fixtures came out (not such a big issue for Derby, when you think about it) but surely some sort or regional structure would make more sense?

Its a fair comment.

Although we know that these young professionals need to replicate the first team in terms of travelling and preparation, but its worth a discussion whether it really is necessary.

Being a cat 1 academy requires a minimum annual spend of over £2 million so this is already factored in when these fixtures occur, but it might still not represent value for money.

mikeyjh · Oct 20, 2014

Thunder Bolt said:
It is a competitive game. Our U21s are in the Barclays U21 Premier League.

It's not though is it, it's a reserve league - Triallists are allowed in this league FFS.

Diego Napier · Oct 20, 2014

granny weatherwax said:
Development squad no doubt...we will be brilliant in 5 years time...or we will have developed them and sold them on to keep us under the FFP radar

Or more hopefully both!

mikeyjh · Oct 20, 2014

BigGully said:
Its a fair comment.

Although we know that these young professionals need to replicate the first team in terms of travelling and preparation, but its worth a discussion whether it really is necessary.

Being a cat 1 academy requires a minimum annual spend of over £2 million so this is already factored in when these fixtures occur, but it might still not represent value for money.

Yep - Personally don't think it makes sense for young pros to be sat on coaches for 8 hours, but there you go.... I'm not entirely confident that the blueprint for these Cat 1 academy makes sense either, does spending more guarantee better results in the long run? But I guess that's a whole different conversation.

goldstone · Oct 20, 2014

I guess it means Walton won't be replacing Stockdale for Tuesday's game?

BigGully · Oct 20, 2014

Thunder Bolt said:
It is a competitive game. Our U21s are in the Barclays U21 Premier League.

Every game is competitive but it is still meant to be a development environment, so perhaps not competitive in your context.

The team will return with a result, but we will not know whether Newcastle played a number of more experience players or not, so the actual result will not necessarily tell us anything.

Of course the coaches will know and that is the critical thing, but developmentally does an overnight stay in the north east deliver on those players progression.

I know the thinking and reasoning behind these fixtures but apart from the travelling and overnight stay, it might be argued what else is unique to the experience when compared to playing a southern club.

Peter Grummit · Oct 20, 2014

From the NUFC site:

U21s:
Stiffs switch
Newcastle's U21 league game against Brighton and Hove Albion on Monday afternoon has been switched from Whitley Park to the club's Darsley Park training facility - and as a result will not be open to the public.
Alan Pardew confirmed on Thursday that Ryan Taylor was set to continue his comeback against the Seagulls.
Unbeaten in their four games this season, Newcastle lie fourth in the table while Brighton sit bottom after recording one win, one draw and three losses.

So, no fans or atmosphere of any kind.

PG

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2014

BigGully said:
Every game is competitive but it is still meant to be a development environment, so perhaps not competitive in your context.

The team will return with a result, but we will not know whether Newcastle played a number of more experience players or not, so the actual result will not necessarily tell us anything.

Of course the coaches will know and that is the critical thing, but developmentally does an overnight stay in the north east deliver on those players progression.

I know the thinking and reasoning behind these fixtures but apart from the travelling and overnight stay, it might be argued what else is unique to the experience when compared to playing a southern club.

Before we had the training ground and academy status, we were playing Crawley & Gillingham. Now our youngsters are getting experience playing more talented players.
We are wanting to bring through players with talent, so they need to be tested against good quality teams, or what's the point?

British Bulldog · Oct 20, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Saw this thread title, WTF - Is it really a good idea for youngsters to be travelling the length of the country for what really isn't a competitive game!! I thought the FA were getting a grip on youth development and I didn't really take much notice when these fixtures came out (not such a big issue for Derby, when you think about it) but surely some sort or regional structure would make more sense?

It is U21's level it's not like we're talking about little kids here, The under 18's are split into north / south divisions but at development squad level you'd expect a lot of them to be ready to step up to the first team squad if required and if they can't handle the occasional long trip or night away from home at their ages then they're not going to progress very far.

BigGully · Oct 20, 2014

Thunder Bolt said:
Before we had the training ground and academy status, we were playing Crawley & Gillingham. Now our youngsters are getting experience playing more talented players.
We are wanting to bring through players with talent, so they need to be tested against good quality teams, or what's the point?

I am not meaning to be anti and I think if you have the resources to do it then fill yer boots.

It was more a point regarding mikeyjh's post regarding travelling and what it might or might not deliver in terms of development.

I agree playing against better players might improve our own youngsters, it was more a point of needing to go to the north east to find that, when we live in a corner of the world where we must have similar challenges just a lot nearer.

But I agree that fixtures are fixtures and the odd trek up there perhaps is a good thing, but if you analyse it a little more then the benefits can become less obvious.

Barrel of Fun · Oct 20, 2014

How is a trip to Newcastle (and presumably a stay over) detrimental to these young adults?

Thunder Bolt · Oct 20, 2014

Barrel of Fun said:
How is a trip to Newcastle (and presumably a stay over) detrimental to these young adults?

If they want to be professional footballers, it's the lifestyle. Some don't cope with it, so better to find out before they get two year contracts.
These are 18-21 year olds, not juniors.

BigGully · Oct 20, 2014

Barrel of Fun said:
How is a trip to Newcastle (and presumably a stay over) detrimental to these young adults?

Never said it was detrimental.

It was just a chat as to its benefits.

My position is do it and replicate the first team experience, but mikeyjh happened to query its merits and he has a point if you think about it, thats all.

mikeyjh · Oct 20, 2014

British Bulldog said:
It is U21's level it's not like we're talking about little kids here, The under 18's are split into north / south divisions but at development squad level you'd expect a lot of them to be ready to step up to the first team squad if required and if they can't handle the occasional long trip or night away from home at their ages then they're not going to progress very far.

Not so much whether they can cope or not, but whether it's truly advantageous to be spending alot of money on travel and accommodation, does it make them better players? I'm not so sure. Just seems that the money could be better spent on coaching etc, every region of the country has enough 'big' teams to provide the quality opposition.

mikeyjh · Oct 20, 2014

Barrel of Fun said:
How is a trip to Newcastle (and presumably a stay over) detrimental to these young adults?

I don't know if it's detrimental per se, but does it have an advantage over a more regionalised league where your longest trip may be to Reading or somewhere?

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