Our formation

Is there really another team that play this way? Every goal we seem to concede appears to come a break into the HUGE chasms left at fullback. Ogrady was chasing back for the second (comical sadly as he's so slow) to try and fill the hole, later I saw Baldock charging back to try and fill the empty left back slot - what other teams have their strikers trying to do this? Seems very odd to me.

Bennett missed his tackle before their second goal leaving o'grady to have to chase back. If he hadn't had committed himself to the tackle so far up the pitch it would've been him chasing back and not ogrady.

It appeared to me that Boro had identified how we play, it is predictable, and looked to score on the break. They did so successfully twice. Why is pushing full backs up such a dynamic strategy, especially when we have Baldock in the centre against giant centre backs. I don't understand the benefits it brings and yesterday it didn't work.

herecomesaregular said:

Is there really another team that play this way? Every goal we seem to concede appears to come a break into the HUGE chasms left at fullback. Ogrady was chasing back for the second (comical sadly as he's so slow) to try and fill the hole, later I saw Baldock charging back to try and fill the empty left back slot - what other teams have their strikers trying to do this? Seems very odd to me.

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Over the last few years I've seen Murray, Barnes and Ulloa do exactly the same thing.

I honestly don't get this problem. Now i've never played above University or Intermediate Saturday level football but as a defender the bombing on full back is not a new thing in the game and as a member of several defensive units with this type of full back the answer has always been everyone shuffle on one position and if required a midfielder drops in to fill the void.

It smacks of a number of worries for me -

1) Normally one full back is allowed to get forward on the understanding that the other remains, often as the pacier last man to get back in case of a quick break by the opposition. In our case this doesn't happen as both push on at once to provide the width. We then end up with two midfield units with differing responsibilities. A defensive covering pair (JFC & Holla for example) and an offensive supporting pair (Teixeira and KLL). IT seems to me that in this scenario one of the DMC unit should drop in and cover the runners, or the spare man not involved in each of those units should - most recently Gardner. None of this happens and we get overloaded time and time again.

2) The players are playing to individual instruction, but some aren't. If LB/RB are given free reign to push on they will - after all we all like attacking and less like defending. Both Bruno and Bennett in my opinion do not possess the stamina or pace to effectively patrol the entire wing. We were spoiled with Bridge in that position because he had both. Calderon has more pace than Bruno and more stamina than Bruno but for some reason it's felt that perhaps he doesn't have the technical ability to utilise or exploit the forward momentum - this is not something that I prescribe to but it's clear that SH does. It shouldn't be left to COG or Baldock or CMS to come back and plug the gap left by an advancing full back it should be someone from midfield dropping in.

3) I'm starting to think that the reality is that either the personnel we have aren't good enough to undertake SH's instructions or they're not grasping some of the basics of his tactics. I'm damned sure that when he honed his philosophy he doesn't see it as taking unnecessary risks when he allows full backs to push on nor did he expect to concede goal after goal after goal on the counter.

4) No plan B - perhaps yesterday showed that actually he has/is developing a plan B with the introduction of COG alongside Baldock but this has been in my opinion our greatest vulnerability under OG and GP. The inability to concede that what you're doing isn't actually working at all and that you need to be flexible to a dynamic in game scenario when it presents itself.

All the great teams are flexible and adaptive. It's long been a common concern as a Brighton fan that all we ever are on the pitch is reactive. This has to change.

Brighton Mod said:

It appeared to me that Boro had identified how we play, it is predictable, and looked to score on the break. They did so successfully twice. Why is pushing full backs up such a dynamic strategy, especially when we have Baldock in the centre against giant centre backs. I don't understand the benefits it brings and yesterday it didn't work.

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Agree ... a schoolboy team could have scored their second with absolutely no cover whatsoever being offered, and not for the first time.

I think the system relies on the two forward midfielders being up alongside Baldock at the right times and pulling their centre backs apart. That didn't happen, too often Baldock was isolated. It was 100% better when COG came on but still we couldn't really stretch their defence even when matching them with numbers. As PS said on the phone in it doesn't appear that our players really know what they should do.

Hopefully SH is man enough to make changes and not stick with his "we're not going to change anything" stance

The full backs getting forward is fine if we punish teams as a result of it. We haven't and most like others have said just wait and hit us on the break.

Until we start scoring goals I would rather Sami played it safe at the back.

If the full backs are pushed up field so far I reckon they become wingers, in which case why don't we play wingers who can dribble, have pace and who can cross. Just an idea.

Pushing the full backs up so high means we have to play two holding midfielders and reduce our attacking threat through the middle.

I know I'm old but give me 4-4-2 any day.

Arkwright said:

If the full backs are pushed up field so far I reckon they become wingers, in which case why don't we play wingers who can dribble, have pace and who can cross. Just an idea.

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... and play KLL in the middle where he simply can't "get going"

My only concern might be cross to who?

opposition mangers have it easy
defend narrow
attack wide
sorted
for our opponents

Arkwright said:

I know I'm old but give me 4-4-2 any day.

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Thought it was more like 4-4-0 yesterday

pasty said:

Thought it was more like 4-4-0 yesterday

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2-7-1

we should really play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2 as it means that if the full backs don't get back in time there will still be three defenders to stop attacks.

4-4-2 or 4-3-3 only

Barham's tash said:

I honestly don't get this problem. Now i've never played above University or Intermediate Saturday level football but as a defender the bombing on full back is not a new thing in the game and as a member of several defensive units with this type of full back the answer has always been everyone shuffle on one position and if required a midfielder drops in to fill the void.

It smacks of a number of worries for me -

1) Normally one full back is allowed to get forward on the understanding that the other remains, often as the pacier last man to get back in case of a quick break by the opposition. In our case this doesn't happen as both push on at once to provide the width. We then end up with two midfield units with differing responsibilities. A defensive covering pair (JFC & Holla for example) and an offensive supporting pair (Teixeira and KLL). IT seems to me that in this scenario one of the DMC unit should drop in and cover the runners, or the spare man not involved in each of those units should - most recently Gardner. None of this happens and we get overloaded time and time again.

2) The players are playing to individual instruction, but some aren't. If LB/RB are given free reign to push on they will - after all we all like attacking and less like defending. Both Bruno and Bennett in my opinion do not possess the stamina or pace to effectively patrol the entire wing. We were spoiled with Bridge in that position because he had both. Calderon has more pace than Bruno and more stamina than Bruno but for some reason it's felt that perhaps he doesn't have the technical ability to utilise or exploit the forward momentum - this is not something that I prescribe to but it's clear that SH does. It shouldn't be left to COG or Baldock or CMS to come back and plug the gap left by an advancing full back it should be someone from midfield dropping in.

3) I'm starting to think that the reality is that either the personnel we have aren't good enough to undertake SH's instructions or they're not grasping some of the basics of his tactics. I'm damned sure that when he honed his philosophy he doesn't see it as taking unnecessary risks when he allows full backs to push on nor did he expect to concede goal after goal after goal on the counter.

4) No plan B - perhaps yesterday showed that actually he has/is developing a plan B with the introduction of COG alongside Baldock but this has been in my opinion our greatest vulnerability under OG and GP. The inability to concede that what you're doing isn't actually working at all and that you need to be flexible to a dynamic in game scenario when it presents itself.

All the great teams are flexible and adaptive. It's long been a common concern as a Brighton fan that all we ever are on the pitch is reactive. This has to change.

Click to expand...

This. In bold text. When the ball is on the left side of the pitch (from our perspective) our right back can venture forward a bit.

I think we have a fair number of specialist misfits. It is just hard to get the working together. Not of the misfits has sufficient sprint speed for breakaways.

Formation seems to be Sami's main problem.. Im not saying a complete change is needed but he has to tweak a few things. If defenders push up too high then we're always going to concede break away goals, and if the strikers are playing too deep then our midfield have nothing to aim at so will inevitably create little in terms of chances. And playing our only winger (Kaz) in central midfield doesnt really help matters!

Our formation is not the problem we can keep the ball (always 60% possession) Its simply the players we have upfront are short and mediocre. We need a Kenwyne Jones type player(strong and tall)