4th official and TV replays

HAILSHAM SEAGULL · Oct 9, 2014

Watching the England game, and the ref disallowed the goal by Lallana.
He was asking the lino if he was offside, and the lino was clearly receiving the info on his earpiece, from the 4th official I assume, who must have been watching a tv replay.
Is this a new ruling then, because the lino definately never made the final descision?

Prince Monolulu · Oct 9, 2014

The lino should be carpeted for that, unless he was sure and had no outside influence. He might well come unstuck, and if he doesn't then I'll be floored.

atfc village · Oct 9, 2014

There was another England Player blocking The Keepers view maybe The Lino gave it for that.

ManxSeagull · Oct 9, 2014

HAILSHAM SEAGULL said:
Watching the England game, and the ref disallowed the goal by Lallana.
He was asking the lino if he was offside, and the lino was clearly receiving the info on his earpiece, from the 4th official I assume, who must have been watching a tv replay.
Is this a new ruling then, because the lino definately never made the final descision?

If he was receiving information from the 4th official; it was wrong information as Lalana was onside and the player to the side (who was offside) was not directly in the line of sight of the keeper.

severnside gull · Oct 9, 2014

atfc village said:
There was another England Player blocking The Keepers view maybe The Lino gave it for that.

Lallana wasn't offside and the player who you suggested was obstructing the keeper's view was well wide of his line of sight and in no way interfering so not offside. If the 4th official did call it, and it looked that way, then he didn't wait for a replay and he got it wrong. Not that it matters but the offside rule that used to be pretty straightforward is now a lottery as no officials seem able to make consistent decisions.

Acker79 · Oct 9, 2014

severnside gull said:
Not that it matters but the offside rule that used to be pretty straightforward is now a lottery as no officials seem able to make consistent decisions.

The offside rule is straightforward. The reason people think it's complicated is because they seem unable to accept that sometimes referees get them wrong - such as this evening.

This is an issue that is common in judging refs and the laws of the game. Rather than just accept a ref got a decision wrong we look at differing decision for apparently similar situations as inconsistency in refereeing. When it is offside people don't even claim inconsistency, they act as if every offside decision is in line with the laws of the game, and it's just that they don't understand the law well enough to understand why it's given in one game and not in the other.

Both of which seem to go against this eagerness so many pundits/fans have to blame or criticise referees.

They didn't get it wrong this evening because the law is complicated, they got it wrong because they are human beings and human beings make mistakes sometimes, even with simple laws.

edna krabappel · Oct 9, 2014

Acker79 said:
The offside rule is straightforward. The reason people think it's complicated is because they seem unable to accept that sometimes referees get them wrong - such as this evening.

This is an issue that is common in judging refs and the laws of the game. Rather than just accept a ref got a decision wrong we look at differing decision for apparently similar situations as inconsistency in refereeing. When it is offside people don't even claim inconsistency, they act as if every offside decision is in line with the laws of the game, and it's just that they don't understand the law well enough to understand why it's given in one game and not in the other.

Both of which seem to go against this eagerness so many pundits/fans have to blame or criticise referees.

They didn't get it wrong this evening because the law is complicated, they got it wrong because they are human beings and human beings make mistakes sometimes, even with simple laws.

Amen to that. There is this depressing tendency to view occasional refereeing mistakes as catastrophic and worthy of Things Being Done, when all they are is really a simple and inevitable consequence of having humans in control of the game.

HAILSHAM SEAGULL · Oct 10, 2014

Acker79 said:
The offside rule is straightforward. The reason people think it's complicated is because they seem unable to accept that sometimes referees get them wrong - such as this evening.

This is an issue that is common in judging refs and the laws of the game. Rather than just accept a ref got a decision wrong we look at differing decision for apparently similar situations as inconsistency in refereeing. When it is offside people don't even claim inconsistency, they act as if every offside decision is in line with the laws of the game, and it's just that they don't understand the law well enough to understand why it's given in one game and not in the other.

Both of which seem to go against this eagerness so many pundits/fans have to blame or criticise referees.

They didn't get it wrong this evening because the law is complicated, they got it wrong because they are human beings and human beings make mistakes sometimes, even with simple laws.

But the referee didnt get it wrong, the 4th official appeared to give the ruling over the earpiece to the linesman, who told the ref to give it wrongly.
It would now appear they are using TV replays which the 4th official is using.

Cadiz Seagull · Oct 10, 2014

It used to be a lot simpler before they bought in the clause that said you can't be offside if you aren't interfering with play.

As Bill Shankly said, if you aren't interfering with play you shouldn't be on the pitch.

Dorset Seagull · Oct 10, 2014

Surely the old rule was the best. If you are in an offside position, wherever and whatever the reason, then you are offside. Everyone knew what it meant and although human error still occurred at least there was nothing subjective about it.

drew · Oct 10, 2014

Have to say I didn't see it as was out. Did the Ref go over to the 'linesman' to discuss? If not, how do you know the linesman wasn't talking to the ref rather than the 4th official?

severnside gull · Oct 10, 2014

Cadiz Seagull said:
It used to be a lot simpler before they bought in the clause that said you can't be offside if you aren't interfering with play.

As Bill Shankly said, if you aren't interfering with play you shouldn't be on the pitch.

Dorset Seagull said:
Surely the old rule was the best. If you are in an offside position, wherever and whatever the reason, then you are offside. Everyone knew what it meant and although human error still occurred at least there was nothing subjective about it.

A double amen to that! :lolol:

drew said:
Have to say I didn't see it as was out. Did the Ref go over to the 'linesman' to discuss? If not, how do you know the linesman wasn't talking to the ref rather than the 4th official?

He paused....put his hand to his ear as if holding the earpiece to hear more clearly.....then spoke to the ref who gave the decision.
Now I am in favour of using fourth officials and technology to get the decision right and if it were down to me I would have contentious decisions replayed on the big screen so it was clear(er) to all why a certain decision was made. But as I understand it the only people who are permitted to comment/influence decisions are the ref and the two assistants while the dildos on the goal line are only permitted to comment whether the ball crossed the line (you cannot reliably advise on offsides from a right angled view as fans behind the goal should be able to attest). Consistency is the issue. I blame Blatter :lolol:

HAILSHAM SEAGULL · Oct 10, 2014

drew said:
Have to say I didn't see it as was out. Did the Ref go over to the 'linesman' to discuss? If not, how do you know the linesman wasn't talking to the ref rather than the 4th official?

As Severnside Gull says.
The ref awarded a goal. San Marino players asked ref to consult the lino.
When the ref reached him, you could see him listening and talking to his radio link. The lino held his hand up to the ref so he could finish his chat/instuctions.
The lino then appeared to pass the message to the ref who disallowed the goal for off-side, even though Lallana was clearly onside.

Acker79 · Oct 10, 2014

HAILSHAM SEAGULL said:
But the referee didnt get it wrong, the 4th official appeared to give the ruling over the earpiece to the linesman, who told the ref to give it wrongly.
It would now appear they are using TV replays which the 4th official is using.

We don't know that the fourth official said anything, and if he did that he was using TV. As has already been pointed out, TV replays were very clear, if he was looking at TV they would have got it right.

There's no footage of the fourth official looking at a tv, no reports of him doing so. Your entire argument is based on the fact the linesman was fiddling with his ear piece and took a pause while speaking to the ref, and that he raised his hand as the ref approached.

The ref is linked to the linesmen through those ear pieces as well. It's entirely possible the lino's hand gesture was at an approaching player behind the ref, warning him to keep distance so they can discuss it. That the talking was with the ref as he approached.

And ultimately the assistants and the fourth official can only offer advice, it is the ref's job to decide whether to accept it, and it is the referee who makes the decision.

Acker79 · Oct 10, 2014

Dorset Seagull said:
Surely the old rule was the best. If you are in an offside position, wherever and whatever the reason, then you are offside. Everyone knew what it meant and although human error still occurred at least there was nothing subjective about it.

Fifa didn't wake up one day and think 'what's the best way to annoy people'. People have always complained about the offside rule.

It's a cute quip that if you're not interfering with play you shouldn't be on the pitch, but the reality is if we implemented that as a proper rule, we wouldn't have goal keepers, as there are plenty of moments in a game when they aren't interfering in play. We wouldn't have centre backs or defensive midfielders, the players that hang back in their own half at corners. We wouldn't have those strikers who stay up on the half way line when defending an attack, just in case there's a quick counter. Wing players just there while the attack goes down the other side.

Under the old rule there would be frequent offsides due to a player who isn't actually interfering with play. That's why people complained, and why it was changed.

I don't believe there is a version of the offside rule that will please people. Whatever changes they make to account for current complaints will lead to more complaints about the new version, until that is changed, then more complaints and so on.

Steve in Japan · Jan 18, 2015

Rather than start new thread.... No sign of the 4th official when Tottenham's third goal was disallowed yesterday. A spectacularly bad decision. Must be especially galling considering the pass was obviously timed to make sure Vertonghen would NOT be offside.

Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊

4th official and TV replays

More options

HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member

Prince Monolulu

Everything in Moderation

atfc village

Well-known member

ManxSeagull

NSC Creator

severnside gull

Well-known member

Acker79

Well-known member

edna krabappel

Well-known member

HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member

Cadiz Seagull

Grey bearded old man

Dorset Seagull

Once Dolphin, Now Seagull

drew

Drew

severnside gull

Well-known member

HAILSHAM SEAGULL

Well-known member

Acker79

Well-known member

Acker79

Well-known member

Steve in Japan

Well-known member

Share this page

Forum statistics

Online statistics

Newest members

Share this page