English apathy to 2.8% of UK population deciding its future...

nicko31 · Sep 18, 2014

Whilst the Scots are out voting in record numbers, their tiny population means even on an 80% + turnout it will take less than 3% to dismantle the UK. As it stands few in England seem all that bothered.

Meanwhile the Westminster established have given the Scots ever concession under the sun, the whole thing is nuts....

Pogue Mahone · Sep 18, 2014

Who says we're not bothered? I am, and await tonight's result with baited breath.

Please let them vote No.

withdeanwombat · Sep 18, 2014

We must keep the Talisker under close control. So we give them everything. 5 teams will be relegated from the Premier League. 3 promoted from the Championship, and places for Celtic and Rangers. Haggis will be on every UK primary school dinner plate, together with white pudding and Irn Bru to wash it down. The works of Rabbie Burns will be on every schools' curriculum, so no more "Should old acquaintance be forgot dee dum dee dum de dum" on New Years Eve - sorry Hogmannay.Dress down Friday will be kilts wi' a wee dirk tucked down the sock. We'll tak a wee dram for the Bonnie Prince and listen to the Proclaimers all day.

This is not apathy. This is self preservation.

nicko31 · Sep 18, 2014

Pogue Mahone said:
Who says we're not bothered? I am, and await tonight's result with baited breath.

Please let them vote No.

Well that's how I feel but I don't see much of it from people I know

Triggaaar · Sep 18, 2014

nicko31 said:
Well that's how I feel but I don't see much of it from people I know

Maybe that's just because it's out of there hands?

Mowgli37 · Sep 18, 2014

Pogue Mahone said:
Who says we're not bothered? I am, and await tonight's result with baited breath.

Please let them vote No.

This.

Thunder Bolt · Sep 18, 2014

I know quite a few English who are bothered, and some Scots who aren't entitled to vote, because they live locally.

halbpro · Sep 18, 2014

Your numbers are off. An 80% turnout would be more like 5.35% of the UK population:

4,285,323 registered to vote (97%) in this election, according to the BBC. 80% of that is 3,428,258. ONS puts UK population at about 64,100,000, which comes out at (about) 5.35%.

Of course that's a false equivalence, as not everyone in the UK can vote. Using, again, the ONS' figures, we can see that in the UK there were 47,691,821 registered voters in the UK as of December 1st 2013 (the most recently available figures). Using that figure, this would be a vote of about 7.2% of the UK's entire voter population.

Is that low? Yes. Less than 10% of the voting population is clearly a low figure. On the other hand it is, after all, where they live, why should they not get to decide who is in charge of them?

Creaky · Sep 18, 2014

halbpro said:
Your numbers are off. An 80% turnout would be more like 5.35% of the UK population:

4,285,323 registered to vote (97%) in this election, according to the BBC. 80% of that is 3,428,258. ONS puts UK population at about 64,100,000, which comes out at (about) 5.35%.

Of course that's a false equivalence, as not everyone in the UK can vote. Using, again, the ONS' figures, we can see that in the UK there were 47,691,821 registered voters in the UK as of December 1st 2013 (the most recently available figures). Using that figure, this would be a vote of about 7.2% of the UK's entire voter population.

Is that low? Yes. Less than 10% of the voting population is clearly a low figure. On the other hand it is, after all, where they live, why should they not get to decide who is in charge of them?

On an 80% turnout it could be as few as 40.1% who actually decide who is in charge of them. 3.6% of registered UK voters.

halbpro · Sep 18, 2014

Creaky said:
On an 80% turnout it could be as few as 40.1% who actually decide who is in charge of them. 3.6% of registered UK voters.

Ah true, if you only decree the winners as being the ones who decide (which I suppose does make sense on a referendum, I'd argue differently on a general election), then yes it's 3.6%.

mikeyjh · Sep 18, 2014

halbpro said:
Is that low? Yes. Less than 10% of the voting population is clearly a low figure. On the other hand it is, after all, where they live, why should they not get to decide who is in charge of them?

Simply speaking, of course. My problem with this is that today Scotland has a lot of devolved powers and therefore a big amount of independence. Emotionally (which, if we're honest this is largely what the yes campaign is all about), Scottish people can choose to consider themselves Scottish or British, yet a simple majority may take away the rights of those who feel British to remain so. Surely a vote such of this magnitude should be held to a higher majority?

For what it's worth I'll be sad if they vote yes, I don't think anyone will benefit. Sad exercise in nationalism in my opinion.

vegster · Sep 18, 2014

I phoned Virgin Media today for an upgrade on my services and was helped by a lovely Scottish girl in their Scottish call centre. She said she had been asked all day by Brits down south "which way are you voting ? " and was often told "Please don't go " she told me she was undecided as yet.

I told her to vote one way or another as that is her voice. The decision will be abided by because we are fortunate to live in a genuine democracy. I will be a little sad if they go but hey, we can't keep them part of the union against their will.

nicko31 · Sep 18, 2014

Today vote should be available to everyone in England, Wales, Scotland and NI...

Do you want separation in individual countries?

Decisions like this are for everyone, end of...

ThePompousPaladin · Sep 18, 2014

nicko31 said:
Meanwhile the Westminster established have given the Scots ever concession under the sun, the whole thing is nuts....

I don't think so, here's a few things off the top of my head:
A constitution; control over their foreign policy; greater equality in society.

halbpro · Sep 18, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Simply speaking, of course. My problem with this is that today Scotland has a lot of devolved powers and therefore a big amount of independence. Emotionally (which, if we're honest this is largely what the yes campaign is all about), Scottish people can choose to consider themselves Scottish or British, yet a simple majority may take away the rights of those who feel British to remain so. Surely a vote such of this magnitude should be held to a higher majority?

For what it's worth I'll be sad if they vote yes, I don't think anyone will benefit. Sad exercise in nationalism in my opinion.

I can see where you're coming from, but unless you have a 100% of the population voting to leave (including anyone old enough to have a sense of national identity at the time of the referendum) you're going to leave someone who feels British losing their sense of identity to some extent.

ThePompousPaladin · Sep 18, 2014

mikeyjh said:
Simply speaking, of course. My problem with this is that today Scotland has a lot of devolved powers and therefore a big amount of independence. Emotionally (which, if we're honest this is largely what the yes campaign is all about), Scottish people can choose to consider themselves Scottish or British, yet a simple majority may take away the rights of those who feel British to remain so. Surely a vote such of this magnitude should be held to a higher majority?

For what it's worth I'll be sad if they vote yes, I don't think anyone will benefit. Sad exercise in nationalism in my opinion.

AS far as i understand it, their leaving the UK. They'll still be on the british isles and remain british, they'll also remain european.

Creaky · Sep 18, 2014

nicko31 said:
Today vote should be available to everyone in England, Wales, Scotland and NI...

Do you want separation in individual countries?

Decisions like this are for everyone, end of...

That same argument could be used with regards any referendum we may get regarding our membership of the EU - I wouldn't want voters in other parts of the EU having a vote in such a referendum.

mikeyjh said:
Simply speaking, of course. My problem with this is that today Scotland has a lot of devolved powers and therefore a big amount of independence. Emotionally (which, if we're honest this is largely what the yes campaign is all about), Scottish people can choose to consider themselves Scottish or British, yet a simple majority may take away the rights of those who feel British to remain so. Surely a vote such of this magnitude should be held to a higher majority?

For what it's worth I'll be sad if they vote yes, I don't think anyone will benefit. Sad exercise in nationalism in my opinion.

Again, exactly the same argument could be used in regards to an EU membership referendum.

mikeyjh · Sep 18, 2014

Creaky said:
That same argument could be used with regards any referendum we may get regarding our membership of the EU - I wouldn't want voters in other parts of the EU having a vote in such a referendum.

Again, exactly the same argument could be used in regards to an EU membership referendum.

I entirely agree

dejavuatbtn · Sep 18, 2014

ThePompousPaladin said:
AS far as i understand it, their leaving the UK. They'll still be on the british isles and remain british, they'll also remain european.

Ah, but it won't be the British Isles if Scotland leave the union. It will be the Britain and Scotland, no longer an Island, with Britain being spread out as part of mainland Britain and part of Ireland. All a bit of a mess really.

mikeyjh · Sep 18, 2014

halbpro said:
I can see where you're coming from, but unless you have a 100% of the population voting to leave (including anyone old enough to have a sense of national identity at the time of the referendum) you're going to leave someone who feels British losing their sense of identity to some extent.

Yep, but on such important issues, would you want to be sure that an overwhelming majority are with you? I can't stand Salmond and this is one of many reasons why, he's doing this not for the good of the majority, but for his nationalistic sentiment and his ego.

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