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Brutal assessment of Arsenal from The Guardian



Marty___Mcfly

I see your wicked plan - I’m a junglist.
Sep 14, 2011
2,251
When Arsène Wenger woke this morning, you might expect that he would’ve felt a pang of regret. Regret, that his Arsenal side couldn’t seriously challenge a Borussia Dortmund missing their best central defender, their right-back, two starting central midfielders and two starting attacking midfielders. Or that they were so overrun that the 2-0 scoreline was flattering, to say the least. Or that Danny Welbeck couldn’t finish when given the chance, thus hinting at the fears of any Arsenal fan that he simply wouldn’t and couldn’t score enough goals. Or that their defending at times might as well have been soundtracked with circus music. Or that their Champions League campaign is off to a losing start, and means in all probability that if they qualify, they will do so in second place, and will thus play some of the competition’s big dogs and potentially face another premature exit.

The thing is though, he probably won’t feel any of that regret. Because Arsène Knows, you see. He Knows what’s best. And best is going into the season with only six senior defenders, one of whom is a left-back made of toothpicks, another a 19-year-old who is first reserve in two positions and another who is Nacho Monreal. Best is subsequently having to give another 19-year-old his first-team debut in one of the most intimidating away grounds on the continent. Best is not buying a proper holding midfielder, someone with a bit of oomph and presence, perhaps. Best is instead playing Mikel Arteta there, a nice guy and decent player with lovely hair, but one who is out of his depth in games like this these days, if he was ever in his depth. Best is playing Mesut Özil on the right wing.

Still, at least he didn’t get quite the kicking of the man returning to his homeland. German paper Bild has a frankly maverick system of rating players, giving them a mark of one to six, with six being the worst, suggesting that the player “didn’t earn his money.” Özil, who would’ve influenced the game more if he’d wheeled a La-Z-Boy to the touchline and read Tim Lovejoy’s opus on football Lovejoy On Football for 90 minutes [No way it would’ve taken him that long to read it – Fiver Ed.], inevitably received a six, the worst mark on the pitch, such was his anonymity.

Still, at least Wenger can rest safe in the knowledge that all of the problems that emerged in Dortmund were unforeseen, unexpected and hugely surprising for all concerned. After all, who could possibly have predicted they would be troubled by a few injuries, look shaky at the back, limp in midfield and toothless up front? Nobody thought to mention it before this week, particularly not to Wenger himself. Don’t worry Arsène, absolutely nobody saw this sort of thing coming. There’s nothing you could’ve done.

The responsibility lies with Wenger. His way is best, he does Know after all, which largely seems an acceptable notion because he won the league 10 years ago. Wenger guiding Arsenal to the Champions League for 17 years in a row is usually pointed to as a reason for him sticking around, but is it really something to get whoop-whoop excited about if they’ve only come close to winning the thing once in that time? The rest of the time they’ve just been there, rather than actually competing.

It would be interesting to see a Venn diagram of the people that still want Wenger to be Arsenal manager, and the people that are unhappy with the state in which he has left his squad, and talk to those who occupy the common ground in the middle. Surely, after a couple of decades with him around, they know Wenger isn’t going to change. He’ll still be the same stubborn old boy who won’t buy a proper midfielder and who won’t change his approach and who will think the defence is fine because they’ve got a youth team full-back who’s never played a game before as cover. And he’ll deliver the same seasons: third or fourth place, disappointing exit in the early knockout rounds of the Champions League. Like clockwork. Shane Warne once said England spinner and al fresco urinator Monty Panesar hadn’t played 33 Tests (that’s ‘cricket matches’ – the long ones), but he’d played one Test 33 times. Arsenal haven’t played 17 Champions League campaigns, they’ve played one campaign 17 times.

This is, Wenger would like us to point out, only one game … except it isn’t, is it? It’s the Arsenal of the last decade boiled down to 90 minutes. Really quite good in the scheme of things, but nowhere near good enough against the best. It’s hard to work out what must be more depressing for Gooners everywhere – the crushing predictability of it all, or the glimmer of hope that appears at the start of every season, only to flicker out in a few weeks.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
My heart bleeds for them, must be so depressing to follow them.

Is the writer a disillusioned Gunners fan by any chance?

The lasts sentence is a load of bollocks, they have been in with a shout into the New Year for the last few seasons haven't they? Drama Queen alert.
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,866
When Arsène Wenger woke this morning, you might expect that he would’ve felt a pang of regret. Regret, that his Arsenal side couldn’t seriously challenge a Borussia Dortmund missing their best central defender, their right-back, two starting central midfielders and two starting attacking midfielders. Or that they were so overrun that the 2-0 scoreline was flattering, to say the least. Or that Danny Welbeck couldn’t finish when given the chance, thus hinting at the fears of any Arsenal fan that he simply wouldn’t and couldn’t score enough goals. Or that their defending at times might as well have been soundtracked with circus music. Or that their Champions League campaign is off to a losing start, and means in all probability that if they qualify, they will do so in second place, and will thus play some of the competition’s big dogs and potentially face another premature exit.

The thing is though, he probably won’t feel any of that regret. Because Arsène Knows, you see. He Knows what’s best. And best is going into the season with only six senior defenders, one of whom is a left-back made of toothpicks, another a 19-year-old who is first reserve in two positions and another who is Nacho Monreal. Best is subsequently having to give another 19-year-old his first-team debut in one of the most intimidating away grounds on the continent. Best is not buying a proper holding midfielder, someone with a bit of oomph and presence, perhaps. Best is instead playing Mikel Arteta there, a nice guy and decent player with lovely hair, but one who is out of his depth in games like this these days, if he was ever in his depth. Best is playing Mesut Özil on the right wing.

Still, at least he didn’t get quite the kicking of the man returning to his homeland. German paper Bild has a frankly maverick system of rating players, giving them a mark of one to six, with six being the worst, suggesting that the player “didn’t earn his money.” Özil, who would’ve influenced the game more if he’d wheeled a La-Z-Boy to the touchline and read Tim Lovejoy’s opus on football Lovejoy On Football for 90 minutes [No way it would’ve taken him that long to read it – Fiver Ed.], inevitably received a six, the worst mark on the pitch, such was his anonymity.

Still, at least Wenger can rest safe in the knowledge that all of the problems that emerged in Dortmund were unforeseen, unexpected and hugely surprising for all concerned. After all, who could possibly have predicted they would be troubled by a few injuries, look shaky at the back, limp in midfield and toothless up front? Nobody thought to mention it before this week, particularly not to Wenger himself. Don’t worry Arsène, absolutely nobody saw this sort of thing coming. There’s nothing you could’ve done.

The responsibility lies with Wenger. His way is best, he does Know after all, which largely seems an acceptable notion because he won the league 10 years ago. Wenger guiding Arsenal to the Champions League for 17 years in a row is usually pointed to as a reason for him sticking around, but is it really something to get whoop-whoop excited about if they’ve only come close to winning the thing once in that time? The rest of the time they’ve just been there, rather than actually competing.

It would be interesting to see a Venn diagram of the people that still want Wenger to be Arsenal manager, and the people that are unhappy with the state in which he has left his squad, and talk to those who occupy the common ground in the middle. Surely, after a couple of decades with him around, they know Wenger isn’t going to change. He’ll still be the same stubborn old boy who won’t buy a proper midfielder and who won’t change his approach and who will think the defence is fine because they’ve got a youth team full-back who’s never played a game before as cover. And he’ll deliver the same seasons: third or fourth place, disappointing exit in the early knockout rounds of the Champions League. Like clockwork. Shane Warne once said England spinner and al fresco urinator Monty Panesar hadn’t played 33 Tests (that’s ‘cricket matches’ – the long ones), but he’d played one Test 33 times. Arsenal haven’t played 17 Champions League campaigns, they’ve played one campaign 17 times.

This is, Wenger would like us to point out, only one game … except it isn’t, is it? It’s the Arsenal of the last decade boiled down to 90 minutes. Really quite good in the scheme of things, but nowhere near good enough against the best. It’s hard to work out what must be more depressing for Gooners everywhere – the crushing predictability of it all, or the glimmer of hope that appears at the start of every season, only to flicker out in a few weeks.

Isn't this what happens to 90% of clubs across all four divisions ? We all start with hope that gradually gets eroded, very few get a trophy or a promotion.
 


Lincoln Imp

Well-known member
Feb 2, 2009
5,964
Isn't this what happens to 90% of clubs across all four divisions ? We all start with hope that gradually gets eroded, very few get a trophy or a promotion.

You're right, but this is Arsenal and therefore of incredible importance to absolutely everyone.
 


Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,521
I think that article is an excellent summation of the situation. If Liverpool can keep their act together Arsenal could be finishing outside the Top 4.
 




Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
I wouldn't be an Arsenal fan, even if I was born one, for the simple fact that the prices are ludicrous. I have no inclination, whatsoever, to fill the pockets of players on ridiculous sums of money.

It must be a bit of a quandary. Paying top prices and winning nothing. Look at their counterparts and they hoover up the titles.

In a perfect world, I'd rather pay less, be entertained and the players won't be able to retire in their 30s.
 


Leighgull

New member
Dec 27, 2012
2,377
Every year these planks write Arsenal off. Every year they're there or there abouts.

I don't imagine that Wenger is crying himself to sleep over what some no mark from the Gruniad thinks.
 


theonesmith

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2008
2,328
Every year they're there or there abouts.

Isn't that just about the main point of the article - that every year they are 'thereabouts' without seriously challenging?

I think most of the points are fair. Particularly Ozil - I've been so disappointed by how he's played, I thought he'd be a player worth watching..
 




WhingForPresident

.
NSC Patreon
Feb 23, 2009
16,025
Marlborough
Every year these planks write Arsenal off. Every year they're there or there abouts.

I don't imagine that Wenger is crying himself to sleep over what some no mark from the Gruniad thinks.

The fact that they're always 'thereabouts' yet they never actually deliver is exactly the point though. Is consistently being third or fourth best in England really considered a success for a club that bills itself as one of the biggest in the country?

I can't see Arsenal doing anything better than finishing fourth and getting knocked out of the CL at the quarter-finals (at best) this season. I doubt many of their fans would see that as a decent season.
 


bn3gunner

New member
Feb 12, 2007
390
I have just got back from Dortmund and other than our poor show on the field I had a fantastic time, I have never experienced such a brilliant atmosphere and
such a warm welcome from the fans,Im planning to return for a league game very soon. 280 euros for a student season ticket! I would thoroughly recommend a trip to any football fan
 


Eeyore

Lord Donkey of Queen's Park
NSC Patreon
Apr 5, 2014
23,377
At least the Arsenal empire isn't built on debt in the same way as others. Whatever the shortcomings, I've always respected Wenger. I think if he left they would be worse off.
 






Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,276
Facts...
1) Arsene Wenger is the highest paid manager in World football.
2) Arsenal fans pay the highest prices in World football.
3) Arsenal have won one trophy in 9 years.
4) Arsenal sold their best player ( RVP ) to their biggest rival, who promptly won the PL on the back of his goals ( he was the golden boot winner that season )
5) Arsenal are a cash rich club and have a very healthy bank balance.
6) In recent years, they have clearly not invested enough on players.
7) Arsenal have underperformed in recent years and are still to win the Champions League.

There is no question in my mind that AW has an agenda ( in harness with the board ) to make Arsenal as financially secure as possible. This agenda has taken priority over everything else, including being successful on the pitch. AW and the board measure success as qualifying for the Champions League and hopefully having a decent run. They are not prepared to break the bank to try and win the PL. Just a top 4 place will do nicely. AW is quite skillful in the way he manages his resources, to ensure that that goal is achieved. That is his strength. Astute financial management and clever marshalling of his sometimes meagre resources. The fans get impatient and frustrated but nothing is going to change whilst AW is in charge. He is running a tight ship and managing the club to a massive profit. Thats their agenda. To have the Emirates paid for and money in the bank. They are safeguarding themselves against more stringent application of FFP, although the way a lot of clubs are riding roughshod over, through and around them, Arsenal appear to be in the minority.
 


keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,630
Is that article by Daniel Taylor by any chance? He hates Wenger.

They were poor against Dortmund but Dortmund are on of the best clubs in Europe and have already beaten Bayern 2-0 this season.

Every year we have the same BS from journalists who say Wenger's lost it, every year he on a comparitvely small budget does a good job.
 




Gwylan

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
31,323
Uffern
There is no question in my mind that AW has an agenda ( in harness with the board ) to make Arsenal as financially secure as possible. This agenda has taken priority over everything else, including being successful on the pitch. AW and the board measure success as qualifying for the Champions League and hopefully having a decent run.

This is the heart of the matter. They have a target and they achieve that target every season, being third or fourth is clearly good enough. If a club sets out where it wants to be and the manager reaches that year after year, how on earth can anyone judge that manager to be any sort of failure? A really bizarre article, even by the Guardian's standards
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Facts...
1) Arsene Wenger is the highest paid manager in World football.
2) Arsenal fans pay the highest prices in World football.
3) Arsenal have won one trophy in 9 years.
4) Arsenal sold their best player ( RVP ) to their biggest rival, who promptly won the PL on the back of his goals ( he was the golden boot winner that season )
5) Arsenal are a cash rich club and have a very healthy bank balance.
6) In recent years, they have clearly not invested enough on players.
7) Arsenal have underperformed in recent years and are still to win the Champions League.

There is no question in my mind that AW has an agenda ( in harness with the board ) to make Arsenal as financially secure as possible. This agenda has taken priority over everything else, including being successful on the pitch. AW and the board measure success as qualifying for the Champions League and hopefully having a decent run. They are not prepared to break the bank to try and win the PL. Just a top 4 place will do nicely. AW is quite skillful in the way he manages his resources, to ensure that that goal is achieved. That is his strength. Astute financial management and clever marshalling of his sometimes meagre resources. The fans get impatient and frustrated but nothing is going to change whilst AW is in charge. He is running a tight ship and managing the club to a massive profit. Thats their agenda. To have the Emirates paid for and money in the bank. They are safeguarding themselves against more stringent application of FFP, although the way a lot of clubs are riding roughshod over, through and around them, Arsenal appear to be in the minority.

You are making it sound like it's a real hardship to be an Arsenal fan :lolol:

If you like to be entertained at a football match I'd suggest you'd do worse at just about every other club in the country. If it's all about winning why do we bother to follow 'ickle Brighton and Hove Albion or other fans follow their teams. Was it Rochdale that hadn't been promoted or relegated for 30 odd years until a couple of seasons ago? I can't find it in my heart to be even vaguely sympathetic to Arsenal's woes :smile:
 
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keaton

Big heart, hot blood and balls. Big balls
Nov 18, 2004
9,630
Facts...
7) Arsenal have underperformed in recent years and are still to win the Champions League.

There is no question in my mind that AW has an agenda ( in harness with the board ) to make Arsenal as financially secure as possible. This agenda has taken priority over everything else, including being successful on the pitch. .

Erm, how have they underperformed and how is this a fact?

You're also complaining that his 'agenda' is to run a financially secure club? Are you mental? Isn't that an excellent agenda?
 


Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Apr 30, 2013
13,763
Herts
If it isn't built on debt why do they rip off - sorry "charge" their fans so much ?

To help avoid getting into debt?

They have a waiting list as long as your arm for ST too, so they can clearly get away with it.

I don't think that [lack of] debt is the main driving force behind ST prices at Arsenal. It's players' wages, imo.
 




Not Andy Naylor

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2007
8,787
Seven Dials
Arsenal's problems were, in a way, similar to ours (don't laugh) for a long time in that they couldn't compete with the big spenders. In their case it was paying off the stadium, in ours FFP. They now have tons of money, but Wenger has forgotten how to spend it properly.

Another similarity is squad imbalance. Because Wenger keeps signing the same player in a desperate attempt to find another Thierry Henry, they have a superabundance of speedy, wide-drifting, lightweight forwards who never score enough goals and can't head the ball - Welbeck, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sanchez - and smallish creative attacking midfield players - Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta, Rosicky - but only one specialist holding player (Flamini, it would be two if Abou Diaby were ever fit) and one centre forward (Giroud, it would be two if Sanogo could avoid tripping over his own feet) and no cover in central defence. The result is that central midfield players such as Rosicky and Ozil end up playing wide because there's nowhere else to put them. They didn't need Ozil, Sanchez or Welbeck - they needed to find someone even half as good as the player they have never replaced - Patrick Vieira.

Likewise, we have too many similar players in certain positions (central midfield, second striker), but only one winger and one forward with any height.
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,088
Chandlers Ford
they have a superabundance of speedy, wide-drifting, lightweight forwards who never score enough goals and can't head the ball - Welbeck, Walcott, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Sanchez - and smallish creative attacking midfield players - Ozil, Ramsey, Wilshere, Arteta, Rosicky - but only one specialist holding player (Flamini, it would be two if Abou Diaby were ever fit) and one centre forward (Giroud, it would be two if Sanogo could avoid tripping over his own feet) and no cover in central defence.

Very much agree.

(you missed off Cazorla, too)
 



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