Uh Oh - Sami blames the players for wild west defending

seagullwedgee · Sep 13, 2014

as reported on Sky Sports this evening.

Surely they were deploying your tactics Sami? You were close enough to the pitch to tell them not to play full backs 70 yards up the pitch if you thought that was wreckless, for example.

Not very classy Sami, the tactics were yours, you don't blame the players this early in your stint.

Try a bit of "praise in public, punish in private" at least maybe.

I could easily grow to dislike this guy if this sort of arrogance continues...............

dejavuatbtn · Sep 13, 2014

I think SH's ploy is to score mpre than we let in. Whilst this will be entertaining I think there is a slight flaw in the process as we appear to have a system by which our full backs need to be in two places at the same time.

DarrenFreemansPerm · Sep 13, 2014

dejavuatbtn said:
I think SH's ploy is to score mpre than we let in. Whilst this will be entertaining I think there is a slight flaw in the process as we appear to have a system by which our full backs need to be in two places at the same time.

That's some pretty radical thinking :lol:

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 13, 2014

seagullwedgee said:
as reported on Sky Sports this evening.

Surely they were deploying your tactics Sami? You were close enough to the pitch to tell them not to play full backs 70 yards up the pitch if you thought that was wreckless, for example.

Not very classy Sami, the tactics were yours, you don't blame the players this early in your stint.

Try a bit of "praise in public, punish in private" at least maybe.

I could easily grow to dislike this guy if this sort of arrogance continues...............

I agree having just read it, he needs to be very careful for it definitely his tactics that caused most of the vulnerability at the back and he is very capable of giving instructions to change it. This is where he is missing an old head as an assistant imho

Guinness Boy · Sep 13, 2014

dejavuatbtn said:
I think SH's ploy is to score mpre than we let in. Whilst this will be entertaining I think there is a slight flaw in the process as we appear to have a system by which our full backs need to be in two places at the same time.

The full backs don't have to be. It struck me against Charlton that we looked most vulnerable when the midfield didn't tuck in or cover. Didn't go today but Warren Aspinall said the same as did a couple of callers to the phone in. Surely if your wingbacks are pushing on to deliver to three attacking players plus one of your midfielders the other two midfielders can sit a little deeper, either feeding off the scraps or breaking up a counter attack as necessary. That still leaves you three or four in or around the box and two wide which is five more than Garcia pushed up but still with the full backs covered? :shrug:

TottonSeagull · Sep 13, 2014

seagullwedgee said:
as reported on Sky Sports this evening.

Surely they were deploying your tactics Sami? You were close enough to the pitch to tell them not to play full backs 70 yards up the pitch if you thought that was wreckless, for example.

Not very classy Sami, the tactics were yours, you don't blame the players this early in your stint.

Try a bit of "praise in public, punish in private" at least maybe.

I could easily grow to dislike this guy if this sort of arrogance continues...............

Don't know if you were there today, but all there goals were due to slapstick defending. I have no problem with Sammi coming out with his thoughts. Yes he deploys the tactics but you have to trust the players to do the basics. As it happens I actually enjoyed the game and even at 2 - 0 and 3 - 1 down I had the feeling we could come back. Sammi is obviously very pissed off with their goals and has every right to say what he feels. These are professional footballers not u/9s on a Sunday morning.

One Teddy Maybank · Sep 13, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
The full backs don't have to be. It struck me against Charlton that we looked most vulnerable when the midfield didn't tuck in or cover. Didn't go today but Warren Aspinall said the same as did a couple of callers to the phone in. Surely if your wingbacks are pushing on to deliver to three attacking players plus one of your midfielders the other two midfielders can sit a little deeper, either feeding off the scraps or breaking up a counter attack as necessary. That still leaves you three or four in or around the box and two wide which is five more than Garcia pushed up but still with the full backs covered?

Crofts did slot in every time, the glaring problem is that he is not a right back and got outpaced practically all the time.

Guinness Boy · Sep 13, 2014

One Teddy Maybank said:
Crofts did slot in every time, the glaring problem is that he is not a right back and got outpaced practically all the time.

I'll take your word for it on today though the commentary on the radio contradicted this. Always take the word of a fan who was there though. Crofts most certainly didn't v Charlton, one of the reasons he came off, and it's not as if Calde has the pace of Usain Boilt is it?

Hyperion · Sep 13, 2014

TottonSeagull said:
Don't know if you were there today, but all there goals were due to slapstick defending. I have no problem with Sammi coming out with his thoughts. Yes he deploys the tactics but you have to trust the players to do the basics. As it happens I actually enjoyed the game and even at 2 - 0 and 3 - 1 down I had the feeling we could come back. Sammi is obviously very pissed off with their goals and has every right to say what he feels. These are professional footballers not u/9s on a Sunday morning.

It really was awful defending. Kicking it anywhere, panicking, easily pressured, mis kicks, poor passing, and in some cases, out of position by nearly a whole length of a pitch

seagullwedgee · Sep 13, 2014

Yep, I was there in the top tier looking down on it, and I was there against Partick and Betis when I first saw it deployed, and I'm pretty sure it will never work. When we're all running back towards our own goal, with everyone except the keeper playing out of position, with FBs stranded upfield, with CBs dropping back into FB pockets to cover, and with DMs supposedly dropping into the vacant CB holes, and the other CMs supposedly dropping back to provide some sort of shell in front of the temporary CBs, EVERYONE is out of position, it is and was a shambles. Every time there was finger pointing about who should be where, and you could hear the arguing, after two weeks of rehearsal it was an utter shambles, and a good league one side made us look truly ridiculous defensive.

A flat back four where all four are a) facing forwards to defend and b) playing in their specialist position and c) where they know where each of their team colleagues will be and what they're doing, might be a logical place to start.

Sami has to carry the can for today, by playing FBs 70 yards up the pitch it is a GIVEN that just about everyone else on the pitch has to switch jobs and cover doing another job, every single time. Recipe. For. Disaster.

Unless he can curb his natural arrogance, an adapt so it is not kamikaze FB play every time we have the ball (as it was today). As many have said on here, crofts and Gardner spent more time playing FB, and so did Dunk and Greer in the first half, than the starting FBs did. Which is daft.

timbha · Sep 13, 2014

first half Gardner looked like he didnt what to do or wasnt fit enough to do it.

whilst Calde is willing, its a bit much to ask him to bomb up and down the line for 90+ minutes (he was on the left wing after 75 minutes)

seagullwedgee · Sep 13, 2014

Calde ran his bollox off and was knackered, and Bennett pulled up with cramp with 10 minutes to go and no subs left. Maybe Sami will look at that and realise it is an impossible job he is asking them to do. Same way as LVG is realising a similar problem.

Seagull over Canaryland · Sep 13, 2014

TottonSeagull said:
Don't know if you were there today, but all there goals were due to slapstick defending. I have no problem with Sammi coming out with his thoughts. Yes he deploys the tactics but you have to trust the players to do the basics. As it happens I actually enjoyed the game and even at 2 - 0 and 3 - 1 down I had the feeling we could come back. Sammi is obviously very pissed off with their goals and has every right to say what he feels. These are professional footballers not u/9s on a Sunday morning.

Certainly not our finest defensive performance but Sami should really choose his words a bit more wisely and save them for behind closed doors. That 'slapstick defending' was largely due to his own tactics which invited Brentford to exploit the gaps left by our FBs bombing on. As another poster rightly suggests it seems as if our FBs are being asked to be in two parts of the pitch at the same time. It almost demands superhero feats of athleticism which I'm not sure they are capable of, therefore they should only bomb forward on a more selective basis and secondly they must track back if our own attack then breaks down.

I could understand if Sami reads the riot act to Bennett who clearly likes going forward but seems to forget about defending.

I'm not sure that Calde warrants similar criticism, the guy plays his heart out but ultimately isn't a top FB. He is being asked to be a pseudo winger and 15 seconds later track back 75 yards to make last ditch tackles against some very sharp opponents.

Dunk had his daft head on today - but again I would suggest that he was left unnecessarily exposed by a lack of support from the FBs.

TonyW · Sep 13, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
The full backs don't have to be. It struck me against Charlton that we looked most vulnerable when the midfield didn't tuck in or cover. Didn't go today but Warren Aspinall said the same as did a couple of callers to the phone in. Surely if your wingbacks are pushing on to deliver to three attacking players plus one of your midfielders the other two midfielders can sit a little deeper, either feeding off the scraps or breaking up a counter attack as necessary. That still leaves you three or four in or around the box and two wide which is five more than Garcia pushed up but still with the full backs covered?

Absolutely spot on.
It wasn't the defending as such today, more the choice of personnel.
Resting JFC was probably a mistake. Ince would have helped and where the hell is Toko?
With full backs charging forward (which is brilliant by the way - just swap Bruno for Calderón) you need defensive midfielders to cover for them.

8ace · Sep 13, 2014

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 13, 2014

Guinness Boy said:
I'll take your word for it on today though the commentary on the radio contradicted this. Always take the word of a fan who was there though. Crofts most certainly didn't v Charlton, one of the reasons he came off, and it's not as if Calde has the pace of Usain Boilt is it?

They were wrong then

PILTDOWN MAN · Sep 13, 2014

TonyW said:
Absolutely spot on.
It wasn't the defending as such today, more the choice of personnel.
Resting JFC was probably a mistake. Ince would have helped and where the hell is Toko?
With full backs charging forward (which is brilliant by the way - just swap Bruno for Calderón) you need defensive midfielders to cover for them.

Bruno? You must be mad. He doesn't ever bother to track back let alone try to. He's a liability at right back should be midfield with Calderon r/b

Seagulls Downunder · Sep 14, 2014

If I'm honest the commentary made it sound very gung-ho and amateurish, you can teach youngsters to play this attacking system, so there's something wrong if full professionals can't execute it.
Either SH doesn't have quick enough players to carry it out or he's not explaing it propley, Derby had this attacking at speed thing working like clockwork last season and that's what SH is aiming for but Calderon, Bruno & even Greer are too slow,when it breaks down, poor distribution up front is the reason we get caught by the game we're trying to play. Either stick Ince in the Bridcutt role or don't commit so much going forward.
Just my opinion from afar, remember I don't have the luxury of seeing it live, I'm going on what I hear on commentary.

Dick Knights Mumm · Sep 14, 2014

I don't know what to make of it. I look forward to WA's comments as he knows his onions. You can put the first two goals down to individual errors - Bennett was caught on the wrong side of his man and Dunk let his man get in front of him.

But we did not address the fundamental issue of the ball inside the full-back. Either they executed it brilliantly - or we played it poorly.

Icy Gull · Sep 14, 2014

Did our forwards have shovel boots on? They seemed to be shovelling the ball over the bar pretty well everytime they shot from the commentary? Oh for a natural goal scorer to appear from the new signings....

I'm not sure we can successfully play the Sami way with the total lack of pace at the back and half the defenders being at the tail end of their careers and not able to run like kids for 96 mins, for what it's worth

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