OT - Emergency flight to the States

Westdene Seagull · Sep 10, 2014

Complete left field question for those that know about getting into the States.

I need to get an engineer to the States tomorrow - he will either be English or Icelandic ( haven't decide which one to send yet ). Is it possible to just buy a flight and deal with entry visas the other end or must he have a visa before travelling ? And yes, I'm checking with the American Embassy but getting through appears to be difficult so I thought I'd ask NSC in the meantime.

Not Andy Naylor · Sep 10, 2014

Good luck - you don't mess with US immigration. If you're going to admit he/she is working, there's no chance they will let him/her in if they just turn up. Persevere with trying to go through channels, but I have a feeling they'll ask why you can't hire a US-based engineer.

Codner pharmaceuticals · Sep 10, 2014

What nationality is he? If British do an ESTA online takes 5 mins. No visa per se required. Iceland I don't know.

jgmcdee · Sep 10, 2014

See if you can find someone who already has an active ESTA, that will move things along. If not you could try getting them to apply through the website as approval can be instant.

Apart from that it depends on how long they are going to be in the US. If they're only going for a few days it shouldn't be an issue.

Cian · Sep 10, 2014

Assuming what they're doing does not need a work visa: ESTA needs to be done 72 hours before travel for the visa waiver programme but if they already have a valid one from a previous trip its not an issue - I believe they stay valid for 2 years.

Not Andy Naylor · Sep 10, 2014

Codner pharmaceuticals said:
What nationality is he? If British do an ESTA online takes 5 mins. No visa per se required. Iceland I don't know.

They might wonder about such a hastily-booked flight. And if they suspect someone's planning to work on an ESTA, expect big trouble.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

Not Andy Naylor said:
They might wonder about such a hastily-booked flight. And if they suspect someone's planning to work on an ESTA, expect big trouble.

This. You cannot expect to send a guy out there and work on a ESTA. If they get wind of the fact he even might work, and refuse him entry, then this will stick to him like mud in the future and affect not only future US entry but entry into other countries. This happened to a girl I know.

Westdene Seagull · Sep 10, 2014

Not Andy Naylor said:
They might wonder about such a hastily-booked flight. And if they suspect someone's planning to work on an ESTA, expect big trouble.

Herr Tubthumper said:
This. You cannot expect to send a guy out there and work on a ESTA. If they get wind of the fact he even might work, and refuse him entry, then this will stick to him like mud in the future and affect not only future US entry but entry into other countries. This happened to a girl I know.

I've looked up ESTA rules and it does say you can use it for business as well as pleasure. I'm now looking for a definition of 'business'.

jackanada · Sep 10, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
I've looked up ESTA rules and it does say you can use it for business as well as pleasure. I'm now looking for a definition of 'business'.

Only if business involves the following:

consult with business associates
attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference
attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)
negotiate a contract

Cian · Sep 10, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
I've looked up ESTA rules and it does say you can use it for business as well as pleasure. I'm now looking for a definition of 'business'.

Is this an engineer who's going to be hitting stuff with hammers, or an engineer who's going to be telling someone in the same firm what to do for a day or two?

Extremely basically, the first requires a work visa, the second doesn't

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
I've looked up ESTA rules and it does say you can use it for business as well as pleasure. I'm now looking for a definition of 'business'.

"Business" does not mean work though. What is your engineer doing? The term in the context of ESTA relates to meetings, conferences or research etc. The full definition can be found on the US Embassy website I believe.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

jackanada said:
Only if business involves the following:

consult with business associates
attend a scientific, educational, professional, or business convention or conference
attend short-term training (you may not be paid by any source in the United States with the exception of expenses incidental to your stay)
negotiate a contract

Even working without pay is prohibited.

Goldstone1976 · Sep 10, 2014

"Foreign travelers coming to the United States to conduct temporary business, for example business meetings and consultations, attending conventions and conferences, or negotiating contracts, need visitor visas unless they qualify for entry under the Visa Waiver Program."

http://www.travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/business.html

A UK passport holder, with the right of permanent abode in the UK, and an Icelandic passport holder are both able to travel on the ESTA VWP.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

Westdean. If only the US was part of the EU...you'd have none of this panic and hassle :wink:

Westdene Seagull · Sep 10, 2014

Cian said:
Is this an engineer who's going to be hitting stuff with hammers, or an engineer who's going to be telling someone in the same firm what to do for a day or two?

Extremely basically, the first requires a work visa, the second doesn't

Herr Tubthumper said:
"Business" does not mean work though. What is your engineer doing? The term in the context of ESTA relates to meetings, conferences or research etc. The full definition can be found on the US Embassy website I believe.

To install and configure a Cisco phone system - this would seem to be allowed under this :

Engineer(s) install, service or repair commercial or industrial equipment
or machinery sold by a non
-
U.S. company to a U.S. buyer, when
specifically required by the purchase contract. Installation cannot
include
construction work, except for supervision or training of U.S.
workers to perform construction.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

Not Andy Naylor said:
Good luck - you don't mess with US immigration.

This. I have some amusing stories of trying to get into the US. My big tip is never travel without luggage. This sets off alarm bells.

Westdene Seagull · Sep 10, 2014

Herr Tubthumper said:
Westdean. If only the US was part of the EU...you'd have none of this panic and hassle

Ha fu*king ha

Goldstone1976 · Sep 10, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
when specifically required by the purchase contract.

...and is it?

Westdene Seagull · Sep 10, 2014

Goldstone1976 said:
...and is it?

Yep, they brought the kit with installation services from us.

Herr Tubthumper · Sep 10, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
To install and configure a Cisco phone system - this would seem to be allowed under this :

Engineer(s) install, service or repair commercial or industrial equipment
or machinery sold by a non
-
U.S. company to a U.S. buyer, when
specifically required by the purchase contract. Installation cannot
include
construction work, except for supervision or training of U.S.
workers to perform construction.

Cisco is a well known US company so it does not qualify under this definition.

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