Religion takes us to war.....yet again

Nibble · Aug 8, 2014

Obama sanctioned air strikes against Iraq to counter the slaughter of Christians refusing to convert or pay the tax.

While in the west we tend to counter argue against religion being the cause of war saying the age old line "Religion is just being used as an excuse for war". We use that argument in the west because, largely, our faith isn't as fervent as some in the middle East. They really do think they are doing the work of their one true God.

The historic battle of Religion Vs Consumerism will destroy this planet.

midnight_rendezvous · Aug 8, 2014

All boils down to the lust for power and greed in my opinion. Religion is merely a biproduct of the quest for control.

turienzo's lovechild · Aug 8, 2014

they have other options other than convert and pay tax

they can also flee or die

Guy Fawkes · Aug 8, 2014

Read this article
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28687329

Should the west stand by and let innocents be slaughtered because of their religion or should they try to ensure their safety and right to life?

Would the motivation for helping them be greed and lust for power? or mortality?

carlzeiss · Aug 8, 2014

turienzo's lovechild said:
they have other options other than convert and pay tax

they can also flee or die

Generous terms indeed

Guy Fawkes · Aug 8, 2014

turienzo's lovechild said:
they have other options other than convert and pay tax

they can also flee or die

And when they have no safe place left to flee to and no food or water, then what? let them die?

symyjym · Aug 8, 2014

It's more a tribal thing than a religious issue, but it rears it's ugly head in via it. Self preservation, land, power and greed seems to be ingrained in our DNA, so when it is not religion it’s something else.

Chimpanzees fight and kill other chimps from other clans if they cross into each others territories so it’s a primeval trait we share.

midnight_rendezvous · Aug 8, 2014

Guy Fawkes said:
Read this article
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28687329

Should the west stand by and let innocents be slaughtered because of their religion or should they try to ensure their safety and right to life?

Would the motivation for helping them be greed and lust for power? or mortality?

I'm sure the vested interest they have in the country and it's oil has nothing to do with it. Also your speech is a tad ironic considering what is happening in Israel and yet the US do nothing.

Guy Fawkes · Aug 8, 2014

midnight_rendezvous said:
I'm sure the vested interest they have in the country and it's oil has nothing to do with it. Also your speech is a tad ironic considering what is happening in Israel and yet the US do nothing.

It was more a general question rather than a speach or preaching from a manifesto.

Israel is a tricky subject and one that there is at least 2 sides to so it's not as straight forward as side A is bad and side B is good and we should be helping one or the other. This isn't a discussion about Israel and what is happening there (there is already a thread on that subject) but for what it's worth i think that there probably should be UN peacekeepers or a similar neutral force that are there to ensure that there are no atrocities carried out by either side upon the other and they alone should persues those who fail to keep the peace (however this doesn't deal with the underlying probelms and root cause of the troubles)

Nitram · Aug 8, 2014

Plenty of wars started not involving religion, maybe the common denominator is elsewhere, but that would not fit in with your agenda would it?

Chicken Runner61 · Aug 8, 2014

I'm not religious but its not religion thats the cause, politicians and people craving power use and manipulate religion and SOME religious people to create the environments and situations they want to make their own personal gains - power- financial or political.

We did it to create an empire, so has everyone else - more recently its been done to obtain access to oil and gas. We stir up the religions encourage them to war, sell them weapons, help them to destroy their societies and infrastructure and then buy their oil cheap in order to help them recover.

We encourage rebels and arm them when it suits us but if any other group did that here we would call them terrorists. Religious people are the easiest to stir up and offend but is that religions fault?

Most muslims are tolerant of all the main religions because in essence they have the same God and prophets, they might not believe Mary or even Jesus to be holy and worshipped but they accept them and believe they existed.

Protestants and Catholics argue about the same thing but who stirred them up to fight each other?

You can blame religion but its the power mongers really

Westdene Seagull · Aug 8, 2014

Who is this "us" ? Did I miss the UK becoming part of the USA ?

symyjym · Aug 8, 2014

Mustafa said:
This whole mess began when the USA invaded Iraq in 2003, although the war in Afghanistan, a war on Jihadists was a catalyst.

Fast forward to 2014 and Al-Quaeda has evolved into ISIS - a highly organised, politically aware, multi-national group whose goal is not just to terrorise but to create a state.

Although religion is the driving force of their "ideology", this new conflict is largely political. They want land and power.

Completely agree that Iraq was a turning point. It sent out a message to the rest of the world that war is ok even if UN was against it. We are supposed to lead by example but if we take no notice of the UN, why should others?

Blair and Bush legitimised what is going on to this present day. It's one thing innocent adults being blown up but there will never be any justification for children losing their lives, even if the excuse is that it wasn’t intentional, or an accident. It is sick that people in power no not feel any guilt even when it comes to children.

Gullys Cats · Aug 8, 2014

midnight_rendezvous said:
All boils down to the lust for power and greed in my opinion. Religion is merely a biproduct of the quest for control.

This

somerset · Aug 8, 2014

symyjym said:
It's more a tribal thing than a religious issue,.......

No it isnt, it is exactly a religious issue, the victims in this case are simply a hybrid religion, one which has roots, traditions and ceremony that are reflected across both Christian and Islamic faiths. However, muslims call them devil worshippers, hence the persecution now that IS have started moving into their tradition region of Iraq.

SI 4 BHA · Aug 8, 2014

Mustafa said:
This whole mess began when the USA invaded Iraq in 2003, although the war in Afghanistan, a war on Jihadists was a catalyst.

Fast forward to 2014 and Al-Quaeda has evolved into ISIS - a highly organised, politically aware, multi-national group whose goal is not just to terrorise but to create a state.

Although religion is the driving force of their "ideology", this new conflict is largely political. They want land and power.

ISIS, as Sunnis, are presumably funded by the Saudis/Egypt/UAE/Qatar as they are the main Sunni states? It must be some of these countries but I don't suppose we will impose sanctions on them any time soon as we want their investment(perhaps not Egypt, but the other 3)?
The problem in Iraq was the naivety of the USA/UK who thought that after withdrawing their military might, a democratic government with a small ill equipped army and very limited air power could keep any semblance of control. ISIS have stepped into the vacuum but could have been stopped in their tracks by a couple of state of the art helicopter gunships as they crossed open desert on their way to Mosul. Essentially the demilitarisation of Iraq has opened the door for ISIS and US/UK are responsible. We might not like it, but strong dictatorial leadership is what kept this area reasonably stable, democracy hasn't got a chance. We in the west seem to think that democracy is the only way to run a country, but it only works if there is respect for authority and this clearly isn't the case in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Soulman · Aug 8, 2014

For a long time now Christian's have been targeted, killed, churches burned, killed for not converting etc in many countries in the middle east and Africa. Precious little in the media seems Syria, Libya, Gaza etc get the people's anger and marches going.

piersa · Aug 8, 2014

Nitram said:
Plenty of wars started not involving religion, maybe the common denominator is elsewhere, but that would not fit in with your agenda would it?

Religion has no agenda. It is pure. You would have to be brain dead not to believe in one of the 3,800 gods.

Czechmate · Aug 8, 2014

Westdene Seagull said:
Who is this "us" ? Did I miss the UK becoming part of the USA ?

You're right of course but sometimes it does seem we are the 53rd state .

symyjym · Aug 8, 2014

somerset said:
No

Disagree. Shame you didn't include my whole quote of reason including the Chimpanzee reference?

Why did you feel you had the need to edit my quote so severely anyway?

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