40 Years Ago Today - Did Clough leaving Brighton reinvent the Albion forever ?

chaileyjem · Jul 20, 2014

Incredibly its 40 years ago today that Clough was whisked off his summer holiday to meet with the chairman of Leeds United and start the 44 days.
I've dug out this piece from TSLR assessing Peter Taylor's 3 years at the club. When i wrote it last year i thought that it felt very much like Oscar Garcia following on from a certain GP ...with a more charismatic Mullery type figure perhaps needed to finish the job.
We shall see..
https://jemstone.wordpress.com/2014...or-reinvent-brighton-and-hove-albion-forever/

Did Taylor start everything ? or was he not even the best Peter Taylor to manage Brighton ? (the other one who led us to promotion but didn't hang around)

GoldWithFalmer · Jul 20, 2014

A good point or several made in there,we shall have to wait and see,remind me who OG signed that will spearhead us forwards?

chaileyjem · Jul 20, 2014

GoldWithFalmer said:
A good point or several made in there,we shall have to wait and see,remind me who OG signed that will spearhead us forwards?

Garcia had been with us only a few months when i originally penned that.
I'd say his biggest legacy in terms of new players is establishing Rohan Ince in the first team.

GoldWithFalmer · Jul 20, 2014

chaileyjem said:
Garcia had been with us only a few months when i originally penned that.
I'd say his biggest legacy in terms of new players is establishing Rohan Ince in the first team.

That will do,Taylor signed Ward,Oscar established the new Vieira,expect Arsenal to table a bid in January.

But it is interesting,the comparisons you draw attention to are somewhat rather spooky,let's hope so..

Freddie Goodwin. · Jul 20, 2014

Taylor was the man who built the team. As well as Wardy, he also signed probably our best ever captain in Brian Horton

He steadied the team with experience in Grummit, Cattlin, Cross, Winstanley, Burnett, Morgan & others as well as younger talent like Tiler, Wison, Welch, Fuschillo & Fel. In short, he built the foundations and it was many months before Mullery had to add to that team.

The fact Taylor was after Peter Withe alerted Clough to sign him for Forest. I think Taylor was 2nd to none in histransfer success rate.

The 2nd Peter taylor was good with a winning team but, when the going gets tough, he goes.l

ofco8 · Jul 20, 2014

I have always considered that the Clough/Taylor era was the start of the modern Albion.

Up until they arrived we were just one of dozens of teams who moved slowly through the 4th to 2nd tiers of the League and back again.

Of course the Archer/Bellotti cretins tried to take us back permanently to the pre Clough/Taylor days.

Nottseagull · Jul 21, 2014

Freddie Goodwin. said:
Taylor was the man who built the team. As well as Wardy, he also signed probably our best ever captain in Brian Horton

Not sure he was as good as Fozzie FG, but probably the best £30,000 we ever spent nonetheless.
Clough was no master tactician, although he was a superb motivator. No doubt he used this skill in persuading Taylor that he should be the manager and Taylor the assistant; I personally think it should have been t'other way round.

Goldstone Rapper · Jul 21, 2014

When I interviewed Andy Rollings he said:

"Peter wasn’t the best of managers. He was such a deep person. The team would meet in the boardroom and we’d be talking about the American Depression and all sorts! It was incredible. He was trying to make us feel fortunate to be players. Although he assembled a great squad, with Peter there was something missing."

That missing ingredient was the ability to motivate players, something that Clough and Mullery had in spadefuls.

Although he found gold with Peter Ward and Brian Horton, it is also worth noting how many of Taylor's signings didn't come off, such as Jim Walker, Tommy Mason, Ernie Machin, Phil Beal, Ricky Marlowe, Paul Fuschillo, Ken Goodeve, Steve Govier, Billy McEwan, Ronnie Welch and so on.

A lot of top division reserve players were signed that weren't any better than the seasoned lower division pros already at the club.

A team that wins just six away games in Division Three in the course of two seasons doesn't deserve promotion.

Green Cross Code Man · Jul 21, 2014

Nottseagull said:
Not sure he was as good as Fozzie FG, but probably the best £30,000 we ever spent nonetheless.
Clough was no master tactician, although he was a superb motivator. No doubt he used this skill in persuading Taylor that he should be the manager and Taylor the assistant; I personally think it should have been t'other way round.

Not as good as Fozzie? I think Horton was a far better player although obviously positionally different. Didn't Horton go on to have a good career in the top flight with Luton for a number of years? What did Foster do after leaving us, I don't recall?

Norman Potting · Jul 21, 2014

Green Cross Code Man said:
Not as good as Fozzie? I think Horton was a far better player although obviously positionally different. Didn't Horton go on to have a good career in the top flight with Luton for a number of years? What did Foster do after leaving us, I don't recall?

...After five seasons at Brighton, Foster was sold to Aston Villa in March 1984. However, after only eight largely unsuccessful months at Villa Park, he was transferred to Luton Town in November 1984. At Luton, he became a rock in central defence, and captained the Hatters to the 1988 League Cup. He left Luton in 1989, and later played for Oxford United, before returning to Brighton, where he spent the last four years of his career. However, Brighton's fortunes during his second spell were quite different to those they experienced during his first spell a decade earlier. He arrived as they had been relegated to the new Division Two (known as the Third Division until the creation of the FA Premier League) and were having to sell many players due to rising debt. By the time of his retirement four years later, they were being relegated again (this time to Division Three)

(Courtesy Wikipedia so it may or may not be true)

Goldstone Rapper · Jul 21, 2014

Although great in the air, I think Foster was a bit suspect on the ground judging from the footage that exists. He was often caught out of position, due to his determination to support the attack. Gary Stevens was a much better defender, I think. Interesting that when the Stevens-Gatting central defensive partnership was broken up in the 1983 Cup Final, Man United breached it four times.

Green Cross Code Man · Jul 21, 2014

Norman Potting said:
...After five seasons at Brighton, Foster was sold to Aston Villa in March 1984. However, after only eight largely unsuccessful months at Villa Park, he was transferred to Luton Town in November 1984. At Luton, he became a rock in central defence, and captained the Hatters to the 1988 League Cup. He left Luton in 1989, and later played for Oxford United, before returning to Brighton, where he spent the last four years of his career. However, Brighton's fortunes during his second spell were quite different to those they experienced during his first spell a decade earlier. He arrived as they had been relegated to the new Division Two (known as the Third Division until the creation of the FA Premier League) and were having to sell many players due to rising debt. By the time of his retirement four years later, they were being relegated again (this time to Division Three)

(Courtesy Wikipedia so it may or may not be true)

Thanks. Had forgotten that. And I also agree with the post that stated Gary Stevens was even better.

Zen Frenzy · Jul 21, 2014

IMO Taylor started the modern BHA that we know and love but my age at the time (an impressionable 14/15 year old) likely to have clouded my judgement. Would also be foolish not to acknowledge Dick Knight's role in re-starting everything - we either wouldn't be here or would be in spectacularly reduced circumstances were it not for him.

GT49er · Jul 21, 2014

Goldstone Rapper said:
Although he found gold with Peter Ward and Brian Horton, it is also worth noting how many of Taylor's signings didn't come off, such as Jim Walker, Tommy Mason, Ernie Machin, Phil Beal, Ricky Marlowe, Paul Fuschillo, Ken Goodeve, Steve Govier, Billy McEwan, Ronnie Welch and so on.

Pretty sure McEwan and Welch were signed by Clough.

It was a good day for us when Clough left - he turned a team that were admittedly struggling to adjust to division 2 (they had just been promoted, and were a bit slow finding their feet - but who's to say they wouldn't have done?) into a team of quivering wrecks that were clearly too scared to go out and play

Goldstone Rapper · Jul 21, 2014

GT49er said:
Pretty sure McEwan and Welch were signed by Clough.

It was a good day for us when Clough left - he turned a team that were admittedly struggling to adjust to division 2 (they had just been promoted, and were a bit slow finding their feet - but who's to say they wouldn't have done?) into a team of quivering wrecks that were clearly too scared to go out and play

You are right. It was when Clough was there. However, I'm pretty sure that Taylor would have been at the forefront of identifying players, especially unknowns, rather than Clough within the partnership.

Nottseagull · Jul 22, 2014

GT49er said:
It was a good day for us when Clough left - he turned a team that were admittedly struggling to adjust to division 2 (they had just been promoted, and were a bit slow finding their feet - but who's to say they wouldn't have done?)

Blimey, your memory's going, I'm afraid to say! We had just been relegated FROM division 2 and were a bit slow finding our feet back in division 3 (after only one season away).

Harry H · Jul 22, 2014

Peter Taylor was a genius,but too much of a deep thinker to be a manager in his own right.
Brian Clough tapped into this and added his own enthusiasm and self belief to make himself an icon.
Alan Mullery was a very lucky man to have inherited the Taylor legacy.

GT49er · Jul 22, 2014

Nottseagull said:
Blimey, your memory's going, I'm afraid to say! We had just been relegated FROM division 2 and were a bit slow finding our feet back in division 3 (after only one season away).

Yes, OK - you caught me out there - I was sure Saward didn't stay long enough to see us relegated in 72-73 - but I've just consulted the oracle that is John Vinnicombe, and you're right. Still right about the team dissolving into scared rabbits in the headlights when Clough arrived though, they just got worse and worse.....and the players he brought in didn't help at all either - I'm pretty sure they all departed fairly quickly when Taylor took chargel.

Nottseagull · Jul 23, 2014

GT49er said:
Yes, OK - you caught me out there - I was sure Saward didn't stay long enough to see us relegated in 72-73

I'm really surprised your post went unchallenged for over a day. Not sure why you thought Saward would be sacked after getting us promoted in 1972; maybe you thought he had been lured by a bigger club? I really felt sorry for Pat when Clough arrived, especially with all he did for the buy-a-player fund which bought Bert Murray. I never heard anything about his career subsequently.

Bwian · Jul 23, 2014

ofco8 said:
Of course the Archer/Bellotti cretins tried to take us back permanently to the pre Clough/Taylor days.

For me it will always be Archer and Stanley (who always gets off lightly considering it was him that got Archer interested). Bellotti was just the sad sack front man the other two used to soak up all of the anger and hostilities. All 3 will forever be enemies of The Albion.

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