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'world class'



Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
Over the next 4 Premier League seasons, how many English players will be given the epithet 'world class', by all forms of media, for a moment/half/game.

I'd hazard a guess, all of them on a monthly basis.

We're good, with good players, some very good.
I think today and v Italy England did enough to say 'well we were a little unfortunate'.

But we have nobody World Class.

Suarez will score those goals 9.9 times out of 10 - World Class.
Mr England-Player will score 7.5 times out of 10 - good, but not World Class.
 

martin tyler

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
5,825
Can not argue with that. 2 good chances tonight 2 goals. There was never a doubt about him missing either. One of maybe 4-5 world class players out there. None are english
 

portslade seagull

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
17,580
portslade
And we won't have any world class players all the time the premiershite doesn't set limits on the foreign players. How many English players are playing in the top leagues/teams in Europe, can't think of any
 


Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
Even in the commentary tonight:-

'Oh that's a lovely piece of skill from x'

No it wasn't that was cleanly trapping a 40 yard pass that was hit just behind you. That should be a basic requirement.

If the level of world class expectation is so low, we'll always get shown up, on the world stage.
 

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
And we won't have any world class players all the time the premiershite doesn't set limits on the foreign players. How many English players are playing in the top leagues/teams in Europe, can't think of any
That's because they are not good enough to command a £100,000+ weekly salary, anywhere else.
 


Bring back Bryan wade!!

I wanna caravan for me ma
Jun 28, 2010
4,315
Hassocks
Even in the commentary tonight:-

'Oh that's a lovely piece of skill from x'

No it wasn't that was cleanly trapping a 40 yard pass that was hit just behind you. That should be a basic requirement.

If the level of world class expectation is so low, we'll always get shown up, on the world stage.

Spot on
 

Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,237
Even in the commentary tonight:-

'Oh that's a lovely piece of skill from x'

would that be Townsend, who opened the stupid comments this evening by saying the Uruguayans looked like they had lots of energy... in the first minute.

though agree, the "world class " is a tad over used and we dont have many real contenders pass this way. Rooney had (past tense) potential to be. Ashley Cole certainly was, and Owen was all those years ago. Gerrard has had flashes of it and Beckham for the 50yd diagonal ball onto a sixpence if thats your thing ( i thought it rather predicatable and thus defendable). Current squad... theres a few that might, we are bursting at the seems with midfield talent. not yet though, leave it to the Euros to make judgement.
 


Stat Brother

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Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
Sterling will come away from this as "the only success story of 2014", and a "world class talent".

In both games he was probably the most guilty for cheaply giving the ball away.
Once again proving just how low the bar is set on a parochial level.

He now won't have to get any better than 'good' to have everything and more for the rest of his life.
 

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,523
Fiveways
The problem with 'world class' is that those that are tend to play as a No 10, an out-and-out striker, perhaps an attacking midfield player and, at a push, a wide forward. The key is to identify who are the best eleven players in each who play across the pitch.
Suarez would make it. Up front.
As defenders, Thaigo Silva looks as good as anyone at present.
I've enjoyed watching James Rodriguez -- or Hhhaaaaamez -- thus far.
 

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,499
I think there are still young English players getting chances with top English clubs. Smalling, Cleverley, Welbeck, Jones, Ashley Young have had plenty of gametime at Man Utd, ditto Henderson, Sterling, Sturridge, Flanagan at Liverpool, Rose, Walker, Townsend and Kane at Spurs, Jenkinson, Wilshere, Oxo, Walcott at Arsenal, Stones, Barkley at Everton, plus the Southampton kids.

Chelsea and Man City, on the other hand, don't seem bothered.
 


Stat Brother

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NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Jul 11, 2003
73,270
West west west Sussex
I think there are still young English players getting chances with top English clubs. Smalling, Cleverley, Welbeck, Jones, Ashley Young have had plenty of gametime at Man Utd, ditto Henderson, Sterling, Sturridge, Flanagan at Liverpool, Rose, Walker, Townsend and Kane at Spurs, Jenkinson, Wilshere, Oxo, Walcott at Arsenal, Stones, Barkley at Everton, plus the Southampton kids.

Chelsea and Man City, on the other hand, don't seem bothered.
But of those players how many are going to develop into 'world class' players?

I'd wager they'll all be good/very good, but none will be world class.

A list that long, with the investment, facilities, science and general money involved there should be at least 3 world class players who become head and shoulders above all the others.

Would Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo et al be as good as they are if they were English?


Ashley Cole is the exception that proves the rule.
 

Pavilionaire

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2003
30,499
But of those players how many are going to develop into 'world class' players?

I'd wager they'll all be good/very good, but none will be world class.

A list that long, with the investment, facilities, science and general money involved there should be at least 3 world class players who become head and shoulders above all the others.

Would Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo et al be as good as they are if they were English?


Ashley Cole is the exception that proves the rule.

There are two issues:

1. Are young English players getting a chance, a fair crack? There are many that argue all the foreigners in the game are squeezing out English players at the top end, but most of the big clubs ARE still giving players their chance.

2. Why, having got the chance, don't the bulk of these players go one to be genuine international class players? This one is the 'X' Factor. I don't believe it's the fault of England managers - we've had enough good ones over the years. I don't believe it's desire - if you're young, English and manage to make it into the 1st XI of a Top 8 Prem side you've already had to show fight and dedication to get that far.

I think it's really about composure, intelligence, being comfortable on the ball. Where we go wrong is we rush our shots, our crosses, we don't have the ball control to give us time to give us a split second to look up before getting rid of the ball. Defenders fail to read the game, getting caught out of position or playing a high risk strategy that leaves them exposure.

I think the persistent high tempo of the Prem encourages our players to play this way.
 

Gritt23

New member
Jul 7, 2003
14,902
Meopham, Kent.
"World Class" is just media BS that they roll out all the time to big-up whatever game they are covering, or whatever League they have paid a fortune to cover. How anyone could ever have labelled Rooney "World Class" after the dire performances in South Africa, when he looked like he couldn't trap a bag of cement is beyond me. But it didn't take long. Couple of games into the next season, and there it was again. Expect the same for Gerrard next season.

Don't get me wrong, I've actually been quite encouraged by some of our players, and I think the age of the exciting members of the squad gives me hope for the future. But we have to accept that when the media say "World Class" they just mean, "please stay watching" and are probably about to trot our the corporate line "best League in the World!".
 

Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,523
Fiveways
But of those players how many are going to develop into 'world class' players?

I'd wager they'll all be good/very good, but none will be world class.

A list that long, with the investment, facilities, science and general money involved there should be at least 3 world class players who become head and shoulders above all the others.

Would Suarez, Messi, Ronaldo et al be as good as they are if they were English?


Ashley Cole is the exception that proves the rule.

Think you're right about Cole. Although England had another player who his international peers -- I'm talking Zidane, Viera and Xavi, for instance -- recognised as world class, but this wasn't reciprocated by England's management, and most of the media and fans.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,523
Fiveways
There are two issues:

1. Are young English players getting a chance, a fair crack? There are many that argue all the foreigners in the game are squeezing out English players at the top end, but most of the big clubs ARE still giving players their chance.

2. Why, having got the chance, don't the bulk of these players go one to be genuine international class players? This one is the 'X' Factor. I don't believe it's the fault of England managers - we've had enough good ones over the years. I don't believe it's desire - if you're young, English and manage to make it into the 1st XI of a Top 8 Prem side you've already had to show fight and dedication to get that far.

I think it's really about composure, intelligence, being comfortable on the ball. Where we go wrong is we rush our shots, our crosses, we don't have the ball control to give us time to give us a split second to look up before getting rid of the ball. Defenders fail to read the game, getting caught out of position or playing a high risk strategy that leaves them exposure.

I think the persistent high tempo of the Prem encourages our players to play this way.

You're right. But it's not just the Prem, it's embedded from the outset. Oscar said as much, and in this he was just repeating Spain's and Barcelona's mantra, that you need to train the young to a high technical standard. Which we don't here. And they do there, and it is done elsewhere. What you're saying about composure is ultimately that their technique is inadequate (composure springs from high technical ability).
 

JBizzle

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2010
5,779
Seaford
There are two issues:

1. Are young English players getting a chance, a fair crack? There are many that argue all the foreigners in the game are squeezing out English players at the top end, but most of the big clubs ARE still giving players their chance.

2. Why, having got the chance, don't the bulk of these players go one to be genuine international class players? This one is the 'X' Factor. I don't believe it's the fault of England managers - we've had enough good ones over the years. I don't believe it's desire - if you're young, English and manage to make it into the 1st XI of a Top 8 Prem side you've already had to show fight and dedication to get that far.

I think it's really about composure, intelligence, being comfortable on the ball. Where we go wrong is we rush our shots, our crosses, we don't have the ball control to give us time to give us a split second to look up before getting rid of the ball. Defenders fail to read the game, getting caught out of position or playing a high risk strategy that leaves them exposure.

I think the persistent high tempo of the Prem encourages our players to play this way.

Great question. I think there aree genuinely "World Class" English prospects out there: Shaw, Barkley and Sterling are good examples. The problem I see is money tends to outweigh ambition. Look at Zaha, or Rodwell, or Sinclair. None were world class talents but all followed money over first team minutes and professional development. Where are they now in England terms?

Sterling has a great chance under Rodgers, as does Barkley under Martinez and that's because they are playing regularly and being coached well. Shaw is my worry... If he goes to United and spends a season behind Evra or Chelsea with a season (or two) behind Azpilacueta, his potential will be stunted.

Also, having the Premier League as a separate entity from the FA is insane as it means monetary interest come first and foremost above the development of the English game and no amount of FA Commissions or reviews will change that.
 

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