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Heysel





Gonzo

New member
Apr 7, 2007
932
Let's be honest, if it were the other way round the scousers would be milking it even more than Hillsborough. They do love a good tragedy don't they.
 


red star portslade

New member
Jul 8, 2012
1,882
Hove innit
Let's be honest, if it were the other way round the scousers would be milking it even more than Hillsborough. They do love a good tragedy don't they.
Never gets a mention by the press or media in this country gets lost in the Liverpool 'love in' . I bet Brendan wont wear an armband in memory of the 39. It's interesting that Liverpool on their website attach the blame to everybody not just their fans . Always the victims . Do you remember when they drew Juventus a few years ago at Anfield and the juve fans turned their back on the kop.
 


Southern Scouse

Well-known member
Jul 21, 2011
2,011
I must admit that I always remember Heysal. I don't think Liverpool fans forget it, more of a deep feeling of sadness and the knowledge that we (collective LFC fans) are partly responsible.
Partly because, it was a tiny, old decrepit stadium, Police unused in Belgium to the violence of the times (not an excuse) and extremely poor organisation. Much has been done by both sets of fans to try and build bridges but of course it's difficult.
If the Tradedgy had occurred in either Italy or the UK I think it would have had far more prominence rather than in a neutrals stadium.
However, any death, at any sporting event is a complete waste and should be remembered.
 


Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,973
I must admit that I always remember Heysal. I don't think Liverpool fans forget it, more of a deep feeling of sadness and the knowledge that we (collective LFC fans) are partly responsible.
Partly because, it was a tiny, old decrepit stadium, Police unused in Belgium to the violence of the times (not an excuse) and extremely poor organisation. Much has been done by both sets of fans to try and build bridges but of course it's difficult.
If the Tradedgy had occurred in either Italy or the UK I think it would have had far more prominence rather than in a neutrals stadium.
However, any death, at any sporting event is a complete waste and should be remembered.

That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.
 








red star portslade

New member
Jul 8, 2012
1,882
Hove innit
That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

 




Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,973
I live there but not a fan, however i do read the facts.

It would appear you can acquire the Scouser victim complex as well as inherit it.

I suggest you take another look at these so called facts of yours.
 


That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

I can't think why, how about you?

From the Taylor report:

2.12.2 As it became increasingly evident that people were trapped, dying and injured in the central pens, Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield told Football Association (FA) representatives that Liverpool fans had broken into the stadium and rushed down the tunnel into the packed central pens causing the fatal crush.

2.12.3 His untruthful allegation was broadcast internationally, establishing the immediate portrayal of the unfolding disaster as a further example of soccer-related crowd violence. Indeed, as the previous chapters have shown, the immediate South Yorkshire Police (SYP) reaction was to view through a lens of hooliganism the fans attempting to escape the fatal crush.

2.12.4 The media coverage on the evening of the disaster, and in the morning press on Sunday 16 April, was a confused mix of allegation and counter-allegation alongside controversial pictures of fans' faces, distorted and lifeless, pressed against the perimeter fence while others lay motionless on the pitch.

2.12.5 Jacques Georges, President of UEFA (European football's governing body), condemned Liverpool fans as 'beasts'. Survivors recounted a different story, emphasising overcrowding, lack of stewarding and inadequate emergency response.

2.12.6 On 18 and 19 April, however, more serious allegations against Liverpool fans were made from seemingly reliable sources, first in Sheffield newspapers and then in the nationals. Unnamed sources, supported by the South Yorkshire Police Federation Secretary, Police Constable Paul Middup, and a local Conservative MP, Irvine Patnick, claimed that many Liverpool fans had deliberately arrived late at the stadium.

2.12.7 They were portrayed as predominantly ticketless, drunk, aggressive and determined to force entry. In the throes of the disaster it was alleged that they had assaulted police officers, urinated on officers and the dying, stolen from the dead and verbally sexually abused a lifeless young woman.

2.12.8 While these allegations were found to be unsubstantiated by the Taylor Inquiry and the reporting was criticised subsequently by the Press Council, the allegations persisted throughout the inquiries and investigations.

2.12.9 Further, and much to the bereaved families' and survivors' dismay, the allegations remained prominent and have since been repeated as factually accurate in academic texts, broadcast documentaries, political debate and popular discourse, including fiction writing.
 


W.C.

New member
Oct 31, 2011
4,927
That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

It goes down like a sack of bricks does it? Well maybe, because the only people who bring it up are the ****tards like yourself who have never bothered with the facts.

Then again, you do have a lot of homework to be getting on with so you're probably a bit busy.
 








nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,653
Manchester


I remember watching that footage at the time; it was from the '86 Liverpool v Everton final wasn't it? Although the first time, all I noticed was the blokes (impressively) scaling the walls up to the open window. It's only from that clip that you can see that some cheeky chappy has opened a gate gate directly below and hundreds of (ticketless?) fans are surging towards it.
 




El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,689
Pattknull med Haksprut
That'll be the same sort of 'partial responsibilities' as the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough turning up drunk without tickets and trying to force their way into the game? But of course that goes down like a sack of bricks whenever anyone brings that up.

That's a crock of shit.
 


red star portslade

New member
Jul 8, 2012
1,882
Hove innit
I remember watching that footage at the time; it was from the '86 Liverpool v Everton final wasn't it? Although the first time, all I noticed was the blokes (impressively) scaling the walls up to the open window. It's only from that clip that you can see that some cheeky chappy has opened a gate gate directly below and hundreds of (ticketless?) fans are surging towards it.

Correct. But these things are airbrushed from 'istree' la.
 




W.C.

New member
Oct 31, 2011
4,927

surely that's the OP's point. To have a pop at scousers?

We had the same with Bradford. 'Why doesn't that get talked about?'

Probably because either Heysel or Bradford didn't involve quite the same disgusting cover up from police and government. The whole scousers as victims stereotype comes mostly from Hillsborough. Which was, Mums and Dads, Sons and Daughters fighting for their family member's good name. We fought for our football club down here. I hope to **** we'd do the same if our family were killed and then blamed by the authorities and media.

I didn't know it was the anniversary of Heysel today so did a quick google. Didn't see much in the way of media coverage it's true. First thing to come up was this though http://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/latest-news/163716-29-years-on-heysel-remembered
 






Mo Gosfield

Well-known member
Aug 11, 2010
6,276
I have always been puzzled by the lack of attention re Heysel. If my memory serves me correct, it was all Italians that died in the tragedy and it was directly caused by Liverpool fans charging another section containing Juve supporters. A wall collapsed and many were crushed/suffocated. As a result of this, English clubs were banned from Europe for a period of time and UEFA were forced to review where they staged major finals and the safety/security of these grounds.
The tragedy had a massive impact on football, both here and in Europe. English clubs lost the revenue from competing in the major European club tournament and our game lost ground against our European rivals, who continued to compete against each other, learn from each other and get better. In England, our game stagnated for a number of years, as a result of this.
Hillsborough dominates recent football tragedies due to the number of deaths involved and the circumstances surrounding those deaths. It is never out of the public gaze. It is regularly in the media. It prompted the Taylor report and the subsequent improvement of English league grounds, as well as highlighting actions and issues within the police force that were totally unacceptable.
I may be in a minority but I feel that Heysel had more impact on football in general. EUFA were far more careful in their management of the game and clubs throughout Europe started to upgrade their stadia, slowly in some cases but at least it was a move in the right direction. It could also be argued that Heysel had a direct effect on the creation of the Premier League. The English game had fallen behind the continent during the ' banned ' years. The powers to be wanted to play catch-up and get more glamour and money and prestige back into our game. They wanted our top clubs back in Europe regularly and they wanted those clubs to get stronger. Along came Rupert Murdoch and hey presto.
All those that died at Hillsborough were Liverpool fans and the families rightly felt aggrieved that more could have been done to save lives. They want to keep remembering and they want the rest of the footballing family to share their grief. Heysel does get overlooked and it shouldn't. It was typical of the ugliness and brutality that embodied our football in the 70's and 80's and it culminated in hundreds of drunken and aggressive Liverpool fans charging a much smaller number of Juve fans and causing nearly 40 deaths. In terms of lives lost, it was smaller than Hillsborough, Ibrox and Bradford but it still had a massive impact.
Is it because they were Italians. Not one of us. The grief is further away from home. It can almost be swept under the carpet until someone raises the topic and then lip service is paid to it. It was on foreign shores, it doesn't matter as much and anyway, Hillsborough is much more important. I just don't know. What I do know is that the whole thing doesn't sit right with me.
Hillsborough is constantly remembered and the dead at Bradford were honoured with applause recently. Heysel is as important if not more important than these and should not be allowed to disappear off the radar. Some Liverpool fans might wish to turn a blind eye to those events in Belgium ( some may have been at both events, involved in the charge at Heysel and also involved in entering the ground late at Hillsborough ) but the rest of us should pay the dead of Heysel the respect they deserve and analyse and acknowledge the impact it had on football.
 



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