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European elections - Is it REALLY a secret ballot?



Goldstone Rapper

Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Jan 19, 2009
14,865
BN3 7DE
I noticed my voting paper was numbered, and this after one of the voting clerks called out the number for one of the assistants to retrieve the right voting paper for me...
 


Pevenseagull

Anti-greed coalition
Jul 20, 2003
19,513
yep, 'tis true, you get a numbered ballot and that number is recroded against your name and address
 


Giraffe

VERY part time moderator
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Aug 8, 2005
26,456
The size of the ballot paper amazed me!! I nearly requested some assistance just to fold it!!
 












supaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 19, 2004
9,609
The United Kingdom of Mile Oak
You put a cross on a form which goes into a padlock sealed box.

Those counting the ballot papers have no access to the list of names and this is only used so that local authorities can ensure that people do not vote more than once.


Plus...

Only certain people can unlock the box.
Those counting votes can see who has put an X in another box and so would spoil the paper and remove the vote.
 




Footsoldier

Banned
May 26, 2013
2,904
As mentioned by someone else,putting the cross on in PENCIL...so who is standing by with a pencil rubber to change it...

That's what I asked so I marked the 'X' in pencil really hard then went over it in black pen so if any dodgy **** tries and erase the 'X' and move it then they'll have a shock when the 'X' is still there.
 


portlock seagull

Why? Why us?
Jul 28, 2003
16,979
I had never heard of most of the 'parties' on my ballot paper but at least half were angry racist nationalist parties going by their names!
 


Eeyore

Lord Donkey of Queen's Park
NSC Patreon
Apr 5, 2014
23,381
Votes can be traced by matching the numbered ballot paper to its similarly numbered counterfoil; the numbered counterfoil also bears the voter's registration number from the electoral register which is hand-written by the Polling Clerk when the ballot paper is issued. Basically, anyone with access to these documents could trace the origin of a vote if they wished.

Some may make a reverse argument, identifying it as a way to identify fraud through voting patterns. There have been 'cash for votes' scandals before. I think there was an investigation in Brighton once.
 




Eeyore

Lord Donkey of Queen's Park
NSC Patreon
Apr 5, 2014
23,381
There was a party on the top which could have fooled UKIP voters. It's description was very similar:

An Independence From Europe (Title of party)
Uk Independence now
 


wellquickwoody

Many More Voting Years
NSC Patreon
Aug 10, 2007
13,585
Melbourne
That's what I asked so I marked the 'X' in pencil really hard then went over it in black pen so if any dodgy **** tries and erase the 'X' and move it then they'll have a shock when the 'X' is still there.

Unfortunately that may be considered a 'spoiled paper' and therefore not counted and discarded.

Try to stop distrusting everyone and everything, sometimes strange rules and practice's exist for a very good reason, just ask the presiding officer for guidance.
 






Wardy

NSC's Benefits Guru
Oct 9, 2003
11,219
In front of the PC
Being a Presiding Officer I was asked this question a lot today.

The papers are numbered for 2 reasons. Firstly so that it is known how many and which papers were issued to which station. If the total number of votes + the number of papers left is more than was issued, it is easy to work out which ones are the wrong ones. Secondly should the election be challenged then again you can trace the votes. The list with your voter number on is sealed in an envelope as soon as the poll closes and can only be opened again with a court order.

This is the way that all elections in this country work and while it is technically possible to trace who voted for who, it would take a court order to do so.

As for the pencils, they are used because they are easier to tell when they are running out. There is nothing stopping you using a pen if you want and the staff at the station will give you a pen should you wish to use one.
 


Footsoldier

Banned
May 26, 2013
2,904
Unfortunately that may be considered a 'spoiled paper' and therefore not counted and discarded.

Try to stop distrusting everyone and everything, sometimes strange rules and practice's exist for a very good reason, just ask the presiding officer for guidance.

You can't noticed the pen unless you erase the pencil marking.
 


happypig

Staring at the rude boys
May 23, 2009
7,935
Eastbourne
Unfortunately that may be considered a 'spoiled paper' and therefore not counted and discarded..

It wouldn't be. All papers that aren't clear and unambiguous are put to one side and then gone through with the candidates (or their representatives) and they will agree whether the voter's intention can be determined or whether it is actually a spoilt paper.
I know this having stood twice (unsuccessfully) for election to Eastbourne and East Sussex councils in the 1990's. One voter had written "not this c@@t" over the other two candidates and "he's the one for me" over mine. The presiding officer said she thought his intention was clear and that it was a vote for me; we all agreed.
Other papers that had things like "f@@k the lot of them" across the paper were agreed as spoilt.
 


Eeyore

Lord Donkey of Queen's Park
NSC Patreon
Apr 5, 2014
23,381
Noticed that but if it was there to fool some it didn't me :thumbsup:

My concern, in the interests of fair democracy, (I'm not a UKIP voter), is that some people, particularly older folk, may have been less aware.
 




Goldstone Rapper

Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Jan 19, 2009
14,865
BN3 7DE
Similarly, I accidentally voted for the Judean People's Front instead of the People's Front of Judea.
 


Wardy

NSC's Benefits Guru
Oct 9, 2003
11,219
In front of the PC
My concern, in the interests of fair democracy, (I'm not a UKIP voter), is that some people, particularly older folk, may have been less aware.

The parties are in alphabetical order. A voter told me today that the party that was at the top, was being lead by someone who was thrown out of UKIP and set-up to confuse people. No idea if that was the case or not but that is what I was told.
 



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