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[Albion] Was the Derby spanking a blessing in disguise?



Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
As painful as it was to witness, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it was exactly what we needed. I was a fan of Oscar, but in hindsight, if I'm being completely honest, this was as much a reaction towards the strong negative feelings I had towards Gus' departure than anything else. In the end their styles of football weren't significantly different, and our weaknesses in terms of pace, strength and being one-dimensional were cruelly exposed by teams who were big, strong, quick and direct when they needed to be.

I have a feeling that Derby will do QPR in the final (hope they do anyway), and if prudent will establish themselves in the Premier League. They reminded me a lot of Southampton when they were promoted, and look how they've got on. Even, dare I say it, Palace have shown what can be done with those basic qualities once they got a manager who wasn't out of his depth. If we had the finances to get the type of players who could play like Barca B at this level then it may be worth continuing the beautiful game experiment, but reality is we don't, so we'll be stuck being the almost men unless we face up to what it takes to get promoted from The Championship. I just hope TB has finally realised this too, and that the next managerial appointment won't be a Gus or Oscar MkII.
 








KZNSeagull

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
19,692
Wolsingham, County Durham
As painful as it was to witness, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it was exactly what we needed. I was a fan of Oscar, but in hindsight, if I'm being completely honest, this was as much a reaction towards the strong negative feelings I had towards Gus' departure than anything else. In the end their styles of football weren't significantly different, and our weaknesses in terms of pace, strength and being one-dimensional were cruelly exposed by teams who were big, strong, quick and direct when they needed to be.

I have a feeling that Derby will do QPR in the final (hope they do anyway), and if prudent will establish themselves in the Premier League. They reminded me a lot of Southampton when they were promoted, and look how they've got on. Even, dare I say it, Palace have shown what can be done with those basic qualities once they got a manager who wasn't out of his depth. If we had the finances to get the type of players who could play like Barca B at this level then it may be worth continuing the beautiful game experiment, but reality is we don't, so we'll be stuck being the almost men unless we face up to what it takes to get promoted from The Championship. I just hope TB has finally realised this too, and that the next managerial appointment won't be a Gus or Oscar MkII.

We have got very close with Gus and Oscar, so I do not see that a radical change in the club's thinking is around the corner.
 






Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
69,880
I'd say yes, it was a blessing in disguise. It brought into sharp focus the difference between talking about having a passion for attacking play and actually demonstrating it on the pitch. The Albion talked the talk, Derby walked the walk. There was a vast gulf between the team that finished sixth in the division and the team that finished third. They ripped us to shreds basically. It confirmed that on the playing side we are currently nowhere near Premier League Ready. No disgrace in that, we did very well to nick a play-off place. Looking forward to the re-build already!
 






kevtherev

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2008
10,443
Tunbridge Wells
Yep, as that 4th(6th) goal went in I thought, that's a blessing..........Seriously though, I agree. Half that side that took the field against Derby were either out of contract, or loan players. I said all along I didn't think we would make the play offs and on that note I was wrong. But I think the performance proved we probably should not have got there. The style of football was negative, dull and boring and that's not just my opinion either, half the pundits on the radio have said as much...We need a new mentality within the football club and at least half a dozen new players in the first team....On a more positive note, I think we will be far better next season and am already looking forward to it.
 




One Teddy Maybank

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Aug 4, 2006
21,482
Worthing
Some good points made. Whilst I gave Oscar a chance largely due to our crippling injury crisis, by late February I'd had enough.

I honestly believe we went backwards this season, the standard of play, was at times, desperate in my eyes. With the exception of Leicester, Blackburn, Charlton and perhaps QPR, the performances in home games was poor in the main.

You can of course argue about player recruitment, bad summer etc...., but the bottom line is to only have one player in the box when we are attacking is unforgiveable, especially at home.

Even earlier in the year versus Forest at home, they went down to 10 men and we went narrower, as he pushed Kaz inside.

That said, we finished 6th, so something must've gone well (clearly the defence). But doesn't say much about the teams around us.

So is it a blessing in disguise? Probably, though I really believe we should leap at any opportunity to go up and worry about it afterwards, when you consider Cardiff's payment for finishing bottom, it really does potentially make the Championship a two tier league.
 




mikeyjh

Well-known member
Dec 17, 2008
4,473
Llanymawddwy
Well, you didn't have to spend the morning on See Tickets click on refresh and getting demoralised as you see how many have gone, bright side to everything right?
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Patreon
Oct 27, 2003
20,938
The arse end of Hangleton
Most definitely a blessing in disguise.

You only need to look how Derby, Burnley and Wigan played to see where we were weak. The fast paced counter-attack was something we couldn't produce while these three teams could. Watching the QPR v Wigan game highlighted how many men they could get in the box very quickly - we were lucky if we got one man there.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
If we had the finances to get the type of players who could play like Barca B at this level then it may be worth continuing the beautiful game experiment, but reality is we don't, so we'll be stuck being the almost men unless we face up to what it takes to get promoted from The Championship.
No, I completely disagree. We finished top 6 with a new manager that didn't know English football, despite having a huge amount of injuries, and spending within our means. The main reason we got dicked in the second leg was because of a complete make shift team. No Ward running down the left, because he was now a central defender, no Bruno passing down the right, no Stephens in the middle. The reason we lost the first leg was due to bad luck. It's not the style of football that's held us back, it's a combination of injuries, money and luck. We had Hoskins out for 2 seasons, CMS out for most of them, and Crofts out for most of this one, yet we still managed to finish top 6 both times, and with a bit of luck would have got further.
 




TonyW

New member
Feb 11, 2004
2,525
As painful as it was to witness, the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that it was exactly what we needed. I was a fan of Oscar, but in hindsight, if I'm being completely honest, this was as much a reaction towards the strong negative feelings I had towards Gus' departure than anything else. In the end their styles of football weren't significantly different, and our weaknesses in terms of pace, strength and being one-dimensional were cruelly exposed by teams who were big, strong, quick and direct when they needed to be.

I have a feeling that Derby will do QPR in the final (hope they do anyway), and if prudent will establish themselves in the Premier League. They reminded me a lot of Southampton when they were promoted, and look how they've got on. Even, dare I say it, Palace have shown what can be done with those basic qualities once they got a manager who wasn't out of his depth. If we had the finances to get the type of players who could play like Barca B at this level then it may be worth continuing the beautiful game experiment, but reality is we don't, so we'll be stuck being the almost men unless we face up to what it takes to get promoted from The Championship. I just hope TB has finally realised this too, and that the next managerial appointment won't be a Gus or Oscar MkII.

To be fair though we do have the finances to play that way.
Problem is, TB won't spend it on a few quality passers and shooters that we desperately need.

If he can splash £130M on a stadium and training ground, then he can strengthen the squad in the necessary way.

But I guess that's just the property developer in him.

Reminds me of when a Reading built their stadium and played to half empty crowds because their team was a bit pants.
 


Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
No, I completely disagree. We finished top 6 with a new manager that didn't know English football, despite having a huge amount of injuries, and spending within our means. The main reason we got dicked in the second leg was because of a complete make shift team. No Ward running down the left, because he was now a central defender, no Bruno passing down the right, no Stephens in the middle. The reason we lost the first leg was due to bad luck. It's not the style of football that's held us back, it's a combination of injuries, money and luck. We had Hoskins out for 2 seasons, CMS out for most of them, and Crofts out for most of this one, yet we still managed to finish top 6 both times, and with a bit of luck would have got further.

At one time I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.
 


TonyW

New member
Feb 11, 2004
2,525
No, I completely disagree. We finished top 6 with a new manager that didn't know English football, despite having a huge amount of injuries, and spending within our means. The main reason we got dicked in the second leg was because of a complete make shift team. No Ward running down the left, because he was now a central defender, no Bruno passing down the right, no Stephens in the middle. The reason we lost the first leg was due to bad luck. It's not the style of football that's held us back, it's a combination of injuries, money and luck. We had Hoskins out for 2 seasons, CMS out for most of them, and Crofts out for most of this one, yet we still managed to finish top 6 both times, and with a bit of luck would have got further.

Spot on.
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
At one time I would have agreed with you, but not anymore.
Why, what happened? Did we finish bottom half? Did we spend more than the other teams and still finish below them? Most of the teams playing direct football finished below us.

Pace we all agree on - Gus and Oscar wanted pace too, but the few players we've had with pace have suffered with injuries.
 




Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
No, I completely disagree. We finished top 6 with a new manager that didn't know English football, despite having a huge amount of injuries, and spending within our means. The main reason we got dicked in the second leg was because of a complete make shift team. No Ward running down the left, because he was now a central defender, no Bruno passing down the right, no Stephens in the middle. The reason we lost the first leg was due to bad luck. It's not the style of football that's held us back, it's a combination of injuries, money and luck. We had Hoskins out for 2 seasons, CMS out for most of them, and Crofts out for most of this one, yet we still managed to finish top 6 both times, and with a bit of luck would have got further.

Tactics played a part because Ince was a CB so could have dropped back and left Ward on the left.
 


Hungry Joe

SINNEN
Oct 22, 2004
7,636
Heading for shore
Why, what happened? Did we finish bottom half? Did we spend more than the other teams and still finish below them? Most of the teams playing direct football finished below us.

Pace we all agree on - Gus and Oscar wanted pace too, but the few players we've had with pace have suffered with injuries.

No of course we didn't finish bottom half, we overachieved when you take into account the circumstances you describe. But we weren't good enough to go up, and if we had have fluked promotion we would have been destroyed next season unless we'd have broke the bank. Derby, even if they don't beat QPR, looked 'Premier ready' in terms of the type of players they had, we looked lightweight and slow in comparison, even when our best players were available. We don't need to rip up the plan, just modify it to take the reality of the league we're in, and what you need to survive in the PL once promoted, into account better.
 



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