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Barber's youth policy



hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
BigGully said:
I am not sure if thats correct.

There can still be movement of players to other academy's of different categories, the compensation rules within the EPPP actually made it a little easier.

For our part, the facilities and status make BHA a far greater enticement for any young player, to say we are category 1 offers an insight to that clubs commitment to player development and access to the necessary resources to help make that happen.

But as I understand it any young player can sign for whom he wishes and within certain conditions can then move again to any club he wants at any category.
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There's other important stuff beyond the facilities and the money, too, from a player's perspective, and equally from his parents' persepctive.

How well the lads are treated.

How much the parents are kept involved / engaged.

Does the club offer a realistic opportunity for progression through the age groups to the first team?
 






hans kraay fan club

hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,322
Chandlers Ford
shaolinpunk said:
If that's required for Cat 1 then the likes of Man City should probably be Cat 3 or 4
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It absolutely isn't. That's my point - that from a player / parents' point of view there are other important factors beyond facilities / categories.
 




H

Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,705
BigGully said:
I am not sure if thats correct.

There can still be movement of players to other academy's of different categories, the compensation rules within the EPPP actually made it a little easier.

For our part, the facilities and status make BHA a far greater enticement for any young player, to say we are category 1 offers an insight to that clubs commitment to player development and access to the necessary resources to help make that happen.

But as I understand it any young player can sign for whom he wishes and within certain conditions can then move again to any club he wants at any category.
Click to expand...

It would be great if the poaching rules had changed as I was under impression that C1 clubs could cherry pick talent for a derisory amount of fixed-rate compensation. if this is no longer the case then brilliant.

I agree with your other points C1 would demonstrate a substantial commitment to the youngsters and our track record of graduating players should be an incentive. I think the quality of this facility will blow potential players away, this aspect of the club certainly looks Premier League ready.
 






DavidinSouthampton

DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,589
Hotchilidog said:
I agree with your other points C1 would demonstrate a substantial commitment to the youngsters and our track record of graduating players should be an incentive. I think the quality of this facility will blow potential players away, this aspect of the club certainly looks Premier League ready.
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I think this is the point!
 






Gullflyinghigh

Gullflyinghigh

Registered User
Apr 23, 2012
4,279
If I understand the system correctly (by no means a guarantee) then it does seem entirely at odds with the idea of improving the standard of young English footballers.

Whilst it would be true that younger players would benefit from the higher quality facilities and, presumably, coaching it would surely restrict future playing time in competitive football, even with the introduction of the proposed 'B' teams.

If a category 1 club can now sign youth players from other clubs at a far lower cost than was previously the case (which I think is the case), the incentive for lower league teams to develop these talents diminishes as they know they've little chance of keeping hold of them or making any sort of profit when they leave. Fast forward a few years to when the larger club has a surplus of youngsters that it signed on the cheap, those same small clubs would be unlikely to be able to afford the transfer fees/wages (compared to the money they'll already be on) to bring some of them in as they lost the very same gems for a pittance not so long ago.

You've then got a bunch of young players on contracts with big clubs who can't get a game and small clubs who can't afford to bring them in for anything other than a loan spell.

I now sit and wait for someone to (politely) tell me I've understood all of this incorrectly because, honestly, I really hope I have.
 


father_and_son

father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
Gullflyinghigh said:
If I understand the system correctly (by no means a guarantee) then it does seem entirely at odds with the idea of improving the standard of young English footballers.

Whilst it would be true that younger players would benefit from the higher quality facilities and, presumably, coaching it would surely restrict future playing time in competitive football, even with the introduction of the proposed 'B' teams.

If a category 1 club can now sign youth players from other clubs at a far lower cost than was previously the case (which I think is the case), the incentive for lower league teams to develop these talents diminishes as they know they've little chance of keeping hold of them or making any sort of profit when they leave. Fast forward a few years to when the larger club has a surplus of youngsters that it signed on the cheap, those same small clubs would be unlikely to be able to afford the transfer fees/wages (compared to the money they'll already be on) to bring some of them in as they lost the very same gems for a pittance not so long ago.

You've then got a bunch of young players on contracts with big clubs who can't get a game and small clubs who can't afford to bring them in for anything other than a loan spell.

I now sit and wait for someone to (politely) tell me I've understood all of this incorrectly because, honestly, I really hope I have.
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NO, that's pretty much how I read it too... Big clubs are allowed to c0ck-bl0ck all the FL clubs by buying up all the talent and paying them NOT to play football, to the detriment of everyone but that club (including the player themselves).
 


Gullflyinghigh

Gullflyinghigh

Registered User
Apr 23, 2012
4,279
father_and_son said:
NO, that's pretty much how I read it too... Big clubs are allowed to c0ck-bl0ck all the FL clubs by buying up all the talent and paying them NOT to play football, to the detriment of everyone but that club (including the player themselves).
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Well I guess we'll just have to hope that we're both wrong...
 




CPFC G

CPFC G

New member
Dec 24, 2011
1,067
Chris001 said:
This was written in 2012, that would mean Palace are due their review - wonder if they got their shit together?
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Not sure we are bothering moving from cat2 to cat1. The academy director said it wasn't worth the extra money at the time. Maybe this will be looked at again now.

I believe we failed because our training ground toilets/showers didn't have separate male/female sections amongst other things.
 


dejavuatbtn

dejavuatbtn

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2010
7,204
Henfield
Just looks like the Premier League clubs are just crucifying football in this country. Keep all the potential and the best players without necessarily playing them. Keep all the money, deny it from the Football League clubs and keep as many clubs out of it as they can. One wonders why people like TB put so much money, time and effort into trying to get there with the odds stacked up against them. Oh well, he does like a gamble, thank goodness.
 


seagullsovergrimsby

seagullsovergrimsby

#cpfctinpotclub
Aug 21, 2005
43,690
Crap Town
CPFC G said:
Not sure we are bothering moving from cat2 to cat1. The academy director said it wasn't worth the extra money at the time. Maybe this will be looked at again now.

I believe we failed because our training ground toilets/showers didn't have separate male/female sections amongst other things.
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Palace will have to seriously consider moving from category 2 to category 1 if they want to continue with the conveyor belt of potential stars of the future. The Albion are now looking for additional host families in the Lancing area to accommodate young prospects from South London and Surrey.
 




B

BigGully

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2006
7,139
Hotchilidog said:
It would be great if the poaching rules had changed as I was under impression that C1 clubs could cherry pick talent for a derisory amount of fixed-rate compensation. if this is no longer the case then brilliant.

I agree with your other points C1 would demonstrate a substantial commitment to the youngsters and our track record of graduating players should be an incentive. I think the quality of this facility will blow potential players away, this aspect of the club certainly looks Premier League ready.
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You have to firstly understand the reasoning behind the change and how the older system impacted on young players, some as young as 9 years old.

Any system should not be implemented to offer smaller clubs a cash-cow where they can trade youngsters for undeserved (in most cases) income, it must be exclusively for the development and improvement of any young player.

The old system encouraged clubs to hoover up all the above average talented youngsters, knowing that if they signed a 9 year old child, they could hold that players registration until that child was 16 years old, that child/parent could not move at any time unless another club coughed up, in many cases quite sizeable fee's.

It was a corrupt system, for me encouraging lazy scouting and coaching.

The new system, in my view allows the player/parent a greater choice of Academy, those Academy's now must offer an exciting, imaginative and nurturing environment, if not then that player can move without the prohibitive compensation system.

The stories of millionaire academy recruits muddy's the waters a little bit, Academy's must now give good reason why any 9 year old might want to sign for them and stay with them, modern training centres such as BHA's might be one of them.

There is a greater accountability than ever before, the majority will gladly sign with their local club, with little options elsewhere, but when that one gem comes along, that player that might be sold on for £30 million might just choose BHA as his preferred option.
 
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C

churley1

New member
Oct 13, 2009
1,089
Bogota
Simply moving to category one doesn't bring an array of immediate talent, practically all the well known academy talents that we have brought through came from Simon Jordan's idea to invest heavily in the academy when he first arrived.

Pretty sure we need to expand our training ground though to reach Cat 1 status as our current one is too small apparently but it's being investigated.
 


Jim in the West

Jim in the West

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Sep 13, 2003
4,563
Way out West
seagullsovergrimsby said:
Palace will have to seriously consider moving from category 2 to category 1 if they want to continue with the conveyor belt of potential stars of the future. The Albion are now looking for additional host families in the Lancing area to accommodate young prospects from South London and Surrey.
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I think one of the problems for Palace is the Pulis effect.....he has deservedly won countless plaudits this season, but historically his success has been a result of buying older, proven players. NOT developing youth. I think BHA has a great opportunity over the next few years to "hoover up" some of the talent in N Sussex and Surrey who may (until now) have been targets for the Palace Academy.
 








Horses Arse

Horses Arse

Well-known member
Jun 25, 2004
4,571
here and there
CPFC G said:
Not sure we are bothering moving from cat2 to cat1. The academy director said it wasn't worth the extra money at the time. Maybe this will be looked at again now.

I believe we failed because our training ground toilets/showers didn't have separate male/female sections amongst other things.
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If they don't have separate male and female toilets and can't be bothered to sort that out then it points to far more fundamental issues blocking cat 1 status. You have the track record of first team action (and for bugging all and sundry up as world stars worth ££££££'s) but fall short in the toilet department??? Really?
 


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