Recruitment policy

Tooting Gull · May 12, 2014

If the Garcia rumours have any foundation, it seems to me recruitment policy is at the heart of it and is a major issue, probably the issue, at the club.

Now I am not devastated if Garcia moves on, and I don't think he has done/proved enough to be throwing his weight around at this point in time. The strikes for him are getting in the play-offs (albeit luckily and not very impressively), overseeing the club regrouping post-Poyet, and coping with crippling injuries to a host of key players right up to the play-off semi-final itself. The strikes against him are often dull and unadventurous football, and dropping a lot of points against inferior teams, and unspectacular recruitment. I'd certainly have given him another season, but if he doesn't want to be here then fine, we'll get somebody decent to replace him.

But it is on this last point of recruitment where there is a lot of uncertainty, and it may not be all his fault.

How much freedom has Garcia been given on transfers? Has he been able to sign any of the players he wanted? How many of his suggested signings have been rejected? The players we did bring in, were they his signings? How involved are Burke and Barber/Bloom on coming up with the initial list of targets? Does it work having a manager with little or no say in signing players they are then responsible for the results from, if indeed that is happening? Is the squad balanced as it stands?

This stuff might not be sexy, but it is really important.

Successive managers, both decent coaches, have now either said, or clearly implied, that they are not happy with this aspect of the club and that they are not being given the tools to do the job. You may or may not believe them. And the club would no doubt counter those claims, but then they would, wouldn't they. They are the ones under scrutiny.

shaolinpunk · May 12, 2014

Burke out.

Napper · May 12, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
If the Garcia rumours have any foundation, it seems to me recruitment policy is at the heart of it and is a major issue, probably the issue, at the club.

Now I am not devastated if Garcia moves on, and I don't think he has done/proved enough to be throwing his weight around at this point in time. The strikes for him are getting in the play-offs (albeit luckily and not very impressively), overseeing the club regrouping post-Poyet, and coping with crippling injuries to a host of key players right up to the play-off semi-final itself. The strikes against him are often dull and unadventurous football, and dropping a lot of points against inferior teams, and unspectacular recruitment. I'd certainly have given him another season, but if he doesn't want to be here then fine, we'll get somebody decent to replace him.

But it is on this last point of recruitment where there is a lot of uncertainty, and it may not be all his fault.

How much freedom has Garcia been given on transfers? Has he been able to sign any of the players he wanted? How many of his suggested signings have been rejected? The players we did bring in, were they his signings? How involved are Burke and Barber/Bloom on coming up with the initial list of targets? Does it work having a manager with little or no say in signing players they are then responsible for the results from, if indeed that is happening? Is the squad balanced as it stands?

This stuff might not be sexy, but it is really important.

Successive managers, both decent coaches, have now either said, or clearly implied, that they are not happy with this aspect of the club and that they are not being given the tools to do the job. You may or may not believe them. And the club would no doubt counter those claims, but then they would, wouldn't they. They are the ones under scrutiny.

Sums up my feelings and the questions I have . Nothing to add to that . Good post . Hope some answers come out though as something isn't right

DavidinSouthampton · May 12, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
If the Garcia rumours have any foundation, it seems to me recruitment policy is at the heart of it and is a major issue, probably the issue, at the club.

Now I am not devastated if Garcia moves on, and I don't think he has done/proved enough to be throwing his weight around at this point in time. The strikes for him are getting in the play-offs (albeit luckily and not very impressively), overseeing the club regrouping post-Poyet, and coping with crippling injuries to a host of key players right up to the play-off semi-final itself. The strikes against him are often dull and unadventurous football, and dropping a lot of points against inferior teams, and unspectacular recruitment. I'd certainly have given him another season, but if he doesn't want to be here then fine, we'll get somebody decent to replace him.

But it is on this last point of recruitment where there is a lot of uncertainty, and it may not be all his fault.

How much freedom has Garcia been given on transfers? Has he been able to sign any of the players he wanted? How many of his suggested signings have been rejected? The players we did bring in, were they his signings? How involved are Burke and Barber/Bloom on coming up with the initial list of targets? Does it work having a manager with little or no say in signing players they are then responsible for the results from, if indeed that is happening? Is the squad balanced as it stands?

This stuff might not be sexy, but it is really important.

Successive managers, both decent coaches, have now either said, or clearly implied, that they are not happy with this aspect of the club and that they are not being given the tools to do the job. You may or may not believe them. And the club would no doubt counter those claims, but then they would, wouldn't they. They are the ones under scrutiny.

This looks dangerously as if you have actually given it some thought.

Personally I hope Oscar does not go, and this could be the stimulus to sort out something (I don't know what) that needs sorting out.

KZNSeagull · May 12, 2014

Tooting Gull said:
If the Garcia rumours have any foundation, it seems to me recruitment policy is at the heart of it and is a major issue, probably the issue, at the club.

Now I am not devastated if Garcia moves on, and I don't think he has done/proved enough to be throwing his weight around at this point in time. The strikes for him are getting in the play-offs (albeit luckily and not very impressively), overseeing the club regrouping post-Poyet, and coping with crippling injuries to a host of key players right up to the play-off semi-final itself. The strikes against him are often dull and unadventurous football, and dropping a lot of points against inferior teams, and unspectacular recruitment. I'd certainly have given him another season, but if he doesn't want to be here then fine, we'll get somebody decent to replace him.

But it is on this last point of recruitment where there is a lot of uncertainty, and it may not be all his fault.

How much freedom has Garcia been given on transfers? Has he been able to sign any of the players he wanted? How many of his suggested signings have been rejected? The players we did bring in, were they his signings? How involved are Burke and Barber/Bloom on coming up with the initial list of targets? Does it work having a manager with little or no say in signing players they are then responsible for the results from, if indeed that is happening? Is the squad balanced as it stands?

This stuff might not be sexy, but it is really important.

Successive managers, both decent coaches, have now either said, or clearly implied, that they are not happy with this aspect of the club and that they are not being given the tools to do the job. You may or may not believe them. And the club would no doubt counter those claims, but then they would, wouldn't they. They are the ones under scrutiny.

Whilst he is happy not to get involved in the whole transfers process, he does have the final say on who comes in, which is fine. He is obviously disappointed that the transfer windows have not gone well so far.

Gus was not happy that we did not appear to splash the cash to his satisfaction (even though we did splash a lot as the accounts bear out). But the question is, is Oscar just unhappy that we have not even bought within our budget this season (as appears to be the case) or is he unhappy with the budget itself? If the former, it is fixable, if the latter it is not. This is the crux of the issue I would guess. (Edit: and will continue to be the crux of any other manager we get in as well)

Seagulltonian · May 12, 2014

Without knowing anything about how this club has worked on transfer targets and players that Oscar wants for the team, I think all the signings have been David Burke's, with financial approval from Paul Barber.

If you look at the end of Oscar's interview yesterday, it seems he is brassed off by the question about strengthining the squad, and says ask the club about it! Which suggests to me he still won't have a say on players coming and going from this club, even if he wanted to.

I'm getting a case of the same scenario happening this season end with another manager on his way because of the lack of control of the makeup of the team.

Another boring summer of being an Albion fan then? :angel:

Brighton Mod · May 12, 2014

Clearly we need to see beyond the offer of resignation, I have been a critic of OG and his style of play in the second half of the season, but did we really have a squad good enough to get us into the prem, the most prestigious league in the world?

Injuries have been really difficult for him and he has been massively limited by having only one striker for a good part of the season, which has taken its toll on Ulloa. The fiasco of releasing Barnes, for good reason, but not having the foresight to get in a replacement was criminal and left us scrabbling around for loan strikers, who, by definition could not make it at their own clubs. WE all need to step back and look at the situation with clear vision as I suspect that there is more to this than meets the eye. In his post match statement he alluded to the fact that he had used 5 U21 players and yesterday there were three on the pitch and two on the bench, in a play off for £100m! If he is going for the same reasons that Poyet identified then we either have the wrong backroom setup or are selecting the wrong manager, whichever it comes back to the management and governance of the club. I feel we have had our best shot at the prem last year and this year has been as good as we could expect. My instinct now is that we are facing a rebuilding exercise next year and I feel that promotion maybe further away thatn we think.

KZNSeagull · May 12, 2014

Seagulltonian said:
Without knowing anything about how this club has worked on transfer targets and players that Oscar wants for the team, I think all the signings have been David Burke's, with financial approval from Paul Barber.

If you look at the end of Oscar's interview yesterday, it seems he is brassed off by the question about strengthining the squad, and says ask the club about it! Which suggests to me he still won't have a say on players coming and going from this club, even if he wanted to.

I'm getting a case of the same scenario happening this season end with another manager on his way because of the lack of control of the makeup of the team.

Another boring summer of being an Albion fan then?

Burke holds the playing budget, Barber holds the operational budget. They both report to TB. I understand anyway.

Simster · May 12, 2014

Football at large really needs to get it's head out of the sand. Our board seem determined to get this club running sustainably, and it is quite laudable - except that it seems the player budget is never enough. There is so much money in the game, and yet 95% of clubs seem to run at a loss, often a ridiculously sized loss. At what point does football decide "this cannot continue" and do something about it?

Seasider78 · May 12, 2014

Oscar is involved in who stays and goes and I know for a fact he was asked about letting Barnes go before the move was sanctioned.

January was disappointed but we were close with Grabban but just did not come off.

As someone else pointed out my guess is this is less to do with the system of signings (as Oscar would have known this when he signed) and more about how much funds are available.

Let's not forget we are competing with parachute payment clubs whilst trying to stay with FFP not an easy task and you can see why managers get frustrated they can't compete with squads.

This is either about transfer budget or he has another offer and wants out but either way I don't think there is anything wrong within the clubs structure who are trying their best to run a sustainable model

Weststander · May 12, 2014

Those questions - I think we know the answers.

Poyet had a massive say on transfers/contracts, too much, resulting in the departure of the brilliant Murray, decent Noone and massive overspend on CMS. His whining at the end was in large part because TB through Barber had had enough, and also were aiming to meet FFP.

Garcia, during his very short tenure so far, lives in that new much tighter and Board-controlled environment. Plus, obviously, he has inherited Poyet's squad, minus Vicente, Hammond, Bridge We know that the departures of the following would have been at Board/ops level and not first team manager/coach - Barnes, ElAbd and Bridcutt.

Conclusion - with FFP and TB understandably wanting to stop the losses he was meeting out of his personal pocket, the club at Board level (NOT OG) have been taken the hard steps to rearrange the squad. The squad quality has dipped alarmingly as a result - look at many of those names here 18 months ago now gone, and some players are that much older, slower and out of form permanently it would seem. I don't think McLaren for example, could have got that much more out of our mediocre to injured to poor squad. We made 6th due, despite some awful performances eg Blackpool, Ipswich at home, as we were surrounded by equally erratic teams such as Leeds, Reading.

With 3 new PL teams coming down with even more parachute money, things will be different this time next year - harder.

Over to the Board to rebuild the squad expertly, recruiting pace, power, non-crocked, younger players.

dingodan · May 12, 2014

We really need to put full faith and trust in the manager. If the suits won't trust the manager, then how can they expect the players to?

I have a worrying feeling that our current structure, while well intentioned, is undermining the role of manager, and this is having a detrimental psychological effect on the squad/team.

The manager should be BOSS.

Surf's Up · May 12, 2014

I suspect he's frustrated with the mega investment that has been going on off the pitch, the ramped up level of expectation that has created amongst many of the fans and the relative failure to invest in the same way on the pitch while many other clubs in the same division are investing heavily on players.

dragonred · May 12, 2014

my own take is GP and now OG both see that with us sticking to FFP, when others clearly are not sticking to it, or have large parachute payments in the bank to fund promotional pushes, our ability to genuinely compete is limited. I therefore rate getting to the playoffs 2 years in a row as frankly a massive over achievement by the club based on the quality of the squad and the money we've spent but I can see a manager would view this as a far greater challenge than going to a club that has and will splash the cash - sadly football is in the main about the here and now and few people are in it for long term 'projects'. Hard to really blame the club for wanting to be prudent and profitable, but equally hard to criticise an ambitious manager who feels the squad is not good enough (it is not) and if there's not going to be major splurge quickly will get no better. whatever happens hopefully it will be sorted quickly so can go into the next season ready to go from day 1 and not under cooked as we were this year.

shaolinpunk · May 12, 2014

One manager who can't get on with the structure and/or the personnel involved can be a blip. Two starts to worry me.

glasfryn · May 12, 2014

Seasider78 said:
Oscar is involved in who stays and goes and I know for a fact he was asked about letting Barnes go before the move was sanctioned.

January was disappointed but we were close with Grabban but just did not come off.

As someone else pointed out my guess is this is less to do with the system of signings (as Oscar would have known this when he signed) and more about how much funds are available.

Let's not forget we are competing with parachute payment clubs whilst trying to stay with FFP not an easy task and you can see why managers get frustrated they can't compete with squads.

This is either about transfer budget or he has another offer and wants out but either way I don't think there is anything wrong within the clubs structure who are trying their best to run a sustainable model

its strange how a club like Burnley can manage their finances and look as though they have stayed within FFP and sail into the premiership with out any problems with a much smaller fan base than us and even buy one of our players who we never replaced adequately. no sorry something is inherently wrong.
and now is the time to get it sorted

Seagulltonian · May 12, 2014

Seasider78 said:
January was disappointed but we were close with Grabban but just did not come off.

From what I saw of Grabban for the remainder of the season, I really don't think he would have been the answer to our prayers!

And again I personally think he would have been a Burke and not an Oscar signing!
So on that score I'm happy he was a "money-grabbing bas***d" and stayed with Bournemouth :angel:

spanish flair · May 12, 2014

shaolinpunk said:
One manager who can't get on with the structure and/or the personnel involved can be a blip. Two starts to worry me.

I still cannot get my head around the fact we have had now, two managers who have played at the highest level and they are told they can choose from players identified by a person who played for who?

gazingdown · May 12, 2014

glasfryn said:
[/B][/U]its strange how a club like Burnley can manage their finances and look as though they have stayed within FFP and sail into the premiership with out any problems with a much smaller fan base than us and even buy one of our players who we never replaced adequately. no sorry something is inherently wrong.
and now is the time to get it sorted

Just because another club did things better than us, that does NOT mean we have done things wrong. After all, there are 18 other teams BELOW us who also have done things right/wrong but ended up in a worse position.

Of course, we need to tweak things to make a better team. However, the reaction on here is as if we just staved off relegation, which is silly.

itszamora · May 12, 2014

shaolinpunk said:
One manager who can't get on with the structure and/or the personnel involved can be a blip. Two starts to worry me.

I agree. It is a big concern.

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