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Long term Oscar



jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
7,699
Woking
Right. We're only a goal down. Everything is still to play for and I am feeling oddly optimistic about Sunday. However, for the purpose of this thread let us assume that we are knocked out of the playoffs at the weekend. There have been a few on NSC suggesting that they would like to see the back of Oscar if we do not make it past Sunday.

Personally I want to see Oscar stay not just for the next season "to see how he gets on" but ideally for another five or six years. We are engaging in a long-term project. The academy will be opening shortly. In theory this improves our chances of attracting better talent at youth, development and senior level. Oscar began by coaching the Barcelona youth set up. It is will known that the Barcelona ethos involved integrated coaching across all levels of the club. One imagines that Tony appointed Oscar precisely because he had worked within the sort of set up that the chairman envisages for us? If the is the case (and I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge to confirm that it is) then Oscar would need to remain with us for some time to bring the project to fruition.

So what level of performance is required to keep us all happy? For my part, provided we remain competitive in the championship then I am more than happy for Oscar to stay on. By competitive I mean finishing in the top half or perhaps just below halfway. We are in a fiercely fought league and it is hard to envisage us being playoff contenders on an annual basis. Sometimes we will fall short (even next year is impossible to determine at this stage without knowing how the close season and FFP shake down). Basically, as long as we are not drawn into ugly relegation squabbles I think he should stay on, provided there is evidence of a credible flow of players from youth, through development and onto the senior squad. I really want to see if Tony can put his master plan together.

I reckon there are a fair few of you who might agree and plenty more that won't.

Discuss?
 


symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
I like what I am seeing and the new Academy will help massively because the squad will be able to train no matter what the weather is. Last season we had problem with frozen pitches, and this seaon we had blustery gales for about three months. Really poor traing conditions will be a thing of the past.
 


glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
just a few weeks ago I wanted him out ......but in those weeks he has shown passion.
and as I said on another thread a mini-cull of players and we might just be there
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
Agree with all you say and really looking forward to seeing what happens re players for next season over the summer break. As long as Oscar stays I am optimistic for the future, more summer manager turmoil would be a bummer. What's the worst that can happen if we lose on Sunday or even in the final, if we are lucky enough to make it? We spend another year or so in the Championship. I LOVE this division anyway.

I am genuinely excited to see what changes Oscar brings around on the playing front.
 


Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,205
Brighton
Presuming we're still in the Championship next season, I don't expect us to be top 6. There will be so many clubs in the mix, and so much parachute money sloshing around it'll be extremely difficult for us to compete with the top ten or so teams. Our recent transfer activity isn't mind blowing either. I won't throw my toys out of the pram if we don't spend a few quid as budgets are getting tighter and tighter, and we HAVE to work within our means. Nothing is worth gambling the clubs future on. That being said, I believe without a few shrewd signings we may find ourselves mid table next season. Is that a disaster? No of course it isn't. Is it a shame? You bet it is. We came so close with Gus, and I believe we could have been so much more this year. Unfortunately our team is getting older in key areas and I'm not sure we'll be able to keep up in the way we have over the last two seasons.

Whether Oscar is in charge or not, I can't see us setting the world alight so I'm indifferent. Do I like the way we've played this year? Not at all. But we're in the playoffs with a shot at the Prem so you can't really argue with that. I don't like the way we've played this campaign but recently I've actually seen passion which is greatly encouraging. Do I want another preseason of turmoil? No way Jose. Let's keep what we've got, make a few smart signings and see where we are. I'm not expecting us to pull down trees and storm the division though. A few years of mediocrity ahead I feel.
 




RexCathedra

Aurea Mediocritas
Jan 14, 2005
3,498
Vacationland
Presuming we're still in the Championship next season, I don't expect us to be top 6.

One, or maybe two, teams will walk the league. The rest will be a lottery. Like it is every year.
 


nwgull

Well-known member
Jul 25, 2003
13,653
Manchester
Presuming we're still in the Championship next season, I don't expect us to be top 6. There will be so many clubs in the mix, and so much parachute money sloshing around it'll be extremely difficult for us to compete with the top ten or so teams.

No different to this or the previous 2 seasons.
 


TomandJerry

Well-known member
Oct 1, 2013
11,367
If we stay in the championship, we get Fulham away and Wolves away, and maybe Preston, whats not to love about that?
 




symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
Presuming we're still in the Championship next season, I don't expect us to be top 6. There will be so many clubs in the mix, and so much parachute money sloshing around it'll be extremely difficult for us to compete with the top ten or so teams. Our recent transfer activity isn't mind blowing either. I won't throw my toys out of the pram if we don't spend a few quid as budgets are getting tighter and tighter, and we HAVE to work within our means. Nothing is worth gambling the clubs future on. That being said, I believe without a few shrewd signings we may find ourselves mid table next season. Is that a disaster? No of course it isn't. Is it a shame? You bet it is. We came so close with Gus, and I believe we could have been so much more this year. Unfortunately our team is getting older in key areas and I'm not sure we'll be able to keep up in the way we have over the last two seasons.

Whether Oscar is in charge or not, I can't see us setting the world alight so I'm indifferent. Do I like the way we've played this year? Not at all. But we're in the playoffs with a shot at the Prem so you can't really argue with that. I don't like the way we've played this campaign but recently I've actually seen passion which is greatly encouraging. Do I want another preseason of turmoil? No way Jose. Let's keep what we've got, make a few smart signings and see where we are. I'm not expecting us to pull down trees and storm the division though. A few years of mediocrity ahead I feel.

I feel that with the new training facilities and Oscar getting in the players he needs, not patching up an old Poyet squad, and a summer without turmoil, an automtatic promotion settled before the end of the season will be possible. Rollocks to the playoffs again, it's always a wild card for the nearly teams.
 


Stumpy Tim

Well-known member
If we don't go up we'll see a sweeping change in the playing staff IMO. Oscar has said many times he wants bags of pace in his team, and we don't have it right now. I wouldn't even be shocked to see Ulloa sold
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,560
Fiveways
Right. We're only a goal down. Everything is still to play for and I am feeling oddly optimistic about Sunday. However, for the purpose of this thread let us assume that we are knocked out of the playoffs at the weekend. There have been a few on NSC suggesting that they would like to see the back of Oscar if we do not make it past Sunday.

Personally I want to see Oscar stay not just for the next season "to see how he gets on" but ideally for another five or six years. We are engaging in a long-term project. The academy will be opening shortly. In theory this improves our chances of attracting better talent at youth, development and senior level. Oscar began by coaching the Barcelona youth set up. It is will known that the Barcelona ethos involved integrated coaching across all levels of the club. One imagines that Tony appointed Oscar precisely because he had worked within the sort of set up that the chairman envisages for us? If the is the case (and I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge to confirm that it is) then Oscar would need to remain with us for some time to bring the project to fruition.

So what level of performance is required to keep us all happy? For my part, provided we remain competitive in the championship then I am more than happy for Oscar to stay on. By competitive I mean finishing in the top half or perhaps just below halfway. We are in a fiercely fought league and it is hard to envisage us being playoff contenders on an annual basis. Sometimes we will fall short (even next year is impossible to determine at this stage without knowing how the close season and FFP shake down). Basically, as long as we are not drawn into ugly relegation squabbles I think he should stay on, provided there is evidence of a credible flow of players from youth, through development and onto the senior squad. I really want to see if Tony can put his master plan together.

I reckon there are a fair few of you who might agree and plenty more that won't.

Discuss?

You've incorrectly included a question mark in your second paragraph, and after your last word. Beyond that, I agree with all you say. :thumbsup:
 






Oscar needs either to deliver promotion success or entertaining football. He can stay as long as does one of those things. I'm not convinced he can, but he deserves his chance having got top six this season
 


martin tyler

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2013
5,826
The clubs with the most success normally give there manager time.
If people remember most people said they would be happy or expected to finish mid table this year.
Despite with injuries, players leaving and other turmoil Oscar has got us to 6th place.
After last night we still are in with a shout as well.
If it the Championship again then so be it. The man needs to be given the chance to buy players and build his team. Let him influence the younger players and i think we will reap the rewards.
He is a good manager and deserves a long term chance of making this work
 




ditchy

a man with a sound track record as a source of qua
Jul 8, 2003
5,205
brighton
What everyone seems to forget is that the teams coming down , Fulham , Cardiff , Norwich and teams before them , have mediocre teams on high wages, they look to restructure to then have another shot at the Prem , but find life hard as there are always 3 or 4 teams who are already there looking to make a go of it . Even with parachute money those clubs find it hard to adjust . What team recently has walked it straight back to the Prem ? . This league is always competitive and i think we are finding that out and getting a tad stronger,with a bit of nous each year . Given , the Gus debarcle put us back a year, but i think Oscar has found his feet and with a little bit more input from day one next season we will be a stronger and better team .
 


Triggaaar

Well-known member
Oct 24, 2005
49,989
Goldstone
The clubs with the most success normally give there manager time.
This is a funny, often repeated parable, but I think it's misleading. Clubs don't necessarily do well because they keep their manager a long time, but if they do well, they're unlikely to sack their manager. But rich clubs like Chelsea and Man City have been doing ok while changing managers. And although Man U said they were different, it's taken them less than a year to prove they're not.

But that said, I agree with your basic point. Unless your manager has shown he's not up to the job, or you have the chance to replace him with a much better manager, then I'd always prefer to keep him. I'd be happy to keep Oscar for a very long time.
 


DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jan 3, 2012
16,538
Right. We're only a goal down. Everything is still to play for and I am feeling oddly optimistic about Sunday. However, for the purpose of this thread let us assume that we are knocked out of the playoffs at the weekend. There have been a few on NSC suggesting that they would like to see the back of Oscar if we do not make it past Sunday.

Personally I want to see Oscar stay not just for the next season "to see how he gets on" but ideally for another five or six years. We are engaging in a long-term project. The academy will be opening shortly. In theory this improves our chances of attracting better talent at youth, development and senior level. Oscar began by coaching the Barcelona youth set up. It is will known that the Barcelona ethos involved integrated coaching across all levels of the club. One imagines that Tony appointed Oscar precisely because he had worked within the sort of set up that the chairman envisages for us? If the is the case (and I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge to confirm that it is) then Oscar would need to remain with us for some time to bring the project to fruition.

So what level of performance is required to keep us all happy? For my part, provided we remain competitive in the championship then I am more than happy for Oscar to stay on. By competitive I mean finishing in the top half or perhaps just below halfway. We are in a fiercely fought league and it is hard to envisage us being playoff contenders on an annual basis. Sometimes we will fall short (even next year is impossible to determine at this stage without knowing how the close season and FFP shake down). Basically, as long as we are not drawn into ugly relegation squabbles I think he should stay on, provided there is evidence of a credible flow of players from youth, through development and onto the senior squad. I really want to see if Tony can put his master plan together.

I reckon there are a fair few of you who might agree and plenty more that won't.

Discuss?

Could not have put it better myself. This is not a short term "let's sack the manager if he loses 5 games in a row" sort of situation. Oscar has far, far more to bring than just what the next couple of games bring, I can't help thinking.

PS - and I like him a lot.
 


Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,205
Brighton
No different to this or the previous 2 seasons.

Next season will be harder than the last two IMO.

Let's say for arguments sake that Derby go up via the play offs.. that leaves you with;

QPR
Wigan
Norwich
Cardiff
Fulham
Reading
Blackburn
Bournemouth
Ipswich
Watford
Middlesborough
Wolves

That's 12 clubs right there that we need to beat over forty-six games. Bear in mind we have an aging squad now and, as far as anyone can determine, a fairly poor transfer policy. Then factor in how many of those teams have parachute payments that we can't compete with. Next season Fulham, Norwich and Cardiff will be Championship teams with £23 million each and a further £36 million to come over the next few seasons. If QPR and Wigan don't go up they will have £18 million next season. Same for Reading.

I'm not saying it's bad that we can't compete. I'm saying it's damn near inevitable. We cannot keep up with those sums - eventually the team with the 11th best budget (or whatever it is) will finish 11. Next season is going to be incredibly hard whether we go up or not. IMO we need a fairly generous serving of transfer dosh AND luck if we want to be up there. I don't want us to spend more than we can afford and I don't think TB does either. With that in mind I honestly think mid-table is on the cards without a good summer. This might be our last shot at the big time in a little while.
 




Biscuit

Native Creative
Jul 8, 2003
22,205
Brighton
I feel that with the new training facilities and Oscar getting in the players he needs, not patching up an old Poyet squad, and a summer without turmoil, an automtatic promotion settled before the end of the season will be possible. Rollocks to the playoffs again, it's always a wild card for the nearly teams.

You could be right. It depends a lot on our transfer policy. A couple of good signings and we could be amongst it but finding Championship standard players that can hit the ground running is a big ask.
 


Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Jul 23, 2003
33,820
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
If we don't go up we'll see a sweeping change in the playing staff IMO. Oscar has said many times he wants bags of pace in his team, and we don't have it right now. I wouldn't even be shocked to see Ulloa sold

If we go up we will as well. Derby showed last night how to break with pace. We have far too many ponderous players. Ulloa is an excellent target man but he's not exactly quick. Andrews got done for pace in the second half which is how he ended up in the book and neither CB is that quick. Compare that to how quickly Derby broke and always with a quick forwards pass along the ground.

Oscar is playing with Gus' team at the moment (yes I know there have been signings but I suspect the wages and egos of one or two are what's stopped us breaking the bank for other players). A clear out would show us what he can really do.
 



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