Didn't realise you could do secret deals with HMRC

Doc Lynam · Apr 28, 2014

Nice to see everyone paying their fair share.

Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has avoided a potential £1.2bn tax bill as a result of a secret deal with HMRC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27144637

Foul Play Rocks · Apr 28, 2014

I understand they're happy to negotiate with the rich folk. Less flexible with the small business man.

Thunder Bolt · Apr 28, 2014

It's the rich wot gets the pleasure. It's the poor wot gets the blame.

Baldseagull · Apr 28, 2014

You can't, the mega rich can.

My mate was (unfairly) assessed to owe them £30k last year, he made an offer just under £20k which was refused, they then forced him into bankruptcy and got next to nothing.
The assessed figure was in large part due to them not accepting that he had earned significantly less in 2009 and 2010 than he had earned in 2008 and 2011, he had to try and prove that he had not received more than was accounted for, they offered no evidence that he had earned any more than he claimed, it was just they did not accept that his income had dropped so much in that period, i.e. in the worst of the recession.
One of the people he spoke to at the tax office told him that it made it neater in their books if he was bankrupt as they could then write it off, and once a Tax inspector has made an assessment the inspector would come under scrutiny if he later adjusts downwards, so will stick with his numbers to the bitter end.

Triggaaar · Apr 28, 2014

This is the thing that bothers me most in our politics. Why do the public let the government allow these loopholes, for companies like Amazon and Starbucks, and rich individuals from Jimmy Car to Bernie.

Norman Potting · Apr 28, 2014

I love the picture of the family on the BBC website, it is just begging for the "...what first attracted you to billionaire Bernie Eccleston..." caption.

Bwian · Apr 28, 2014

Foul Play Rocks said:
I understand they're happy to negotiate with the rich folk. Less flexible with the small business man.

They harass and chase small businesses and the self employed because they know these people always pay unless their business has had cash flow problems. Even then these people usually pay, albeit late. Large HMRC debtors actively avoid paying their fair taxes and get away with it by making derisory payments - leaving the rest of us to pay more while the likes of Eccleston hides his billions offshore.

We're all in this together. Of course we are. It's just that most of us are more in it than others.

Foul Play Rocks · Apr 28, 2014

Baldseagull said:
You can't, the mega rich can.

My mate was (unfairly) assessed to owe them £30k last year, he made an offer just under £20k which was refused, they then forced him into bankruptcy and got next to nothing.
The assessed figure was in large part due to them not accepting that he had earned significantly less in 2009 and 2010 than he had earned in 2008 and 2011, he had to try and prove that he had not received more than was accounted for, they offered no evidence that he had earned any more than he claimed, it was just they did not accept that his income had dropped so much in that period, i.e. in the worst of the recession.
One of the people he spoke to at the tax office told him that it made it neater in their books if he was bankrupt as they could then write it off, and once a Tax inspector has made an assessment the inspector would come under scrutiny if he later adjusts downwards, so will stick with his numbers to the bitter end.

I think the inspectors also get a bonus or commission based on the money they've clawed back. They're not so keen on fighting it if you can afford a "fancy pants" accountant but most can't so easy pickings.

Barrel of Fun · Apr 28, 2014

Good programme just passsed on BBC - Bernie Ecclestone: Lies, Bribes... 2030 - 2100 BBC One 28-4-14 if you want to watch on iplayer.

Cian · Apr 28, 2014

You need to owe them enough that you're their problem and not the other way around, generally. Same with banks!

vegster · Apr 28, 2014

It's a rather well known fact that Bernie has total control of F1 including which hotels and planes the teams use going around the world. "All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely "

beorhthelm · Apr 28, 2014

Barrel of Fun said:
Good programme just passsed on BBC - Bernie Ecclestone: Lies, Bribes... 2030 - 2100 BBC One 28-4-14 if you want to watch on iplayer.

was there two programmes on? i watched one which was pretty poor, a 5 minute item on a bribery case for Newsnight stretched out to 25min of "crime" du jour tax avoidance. would have been far more interesting to hear how he wrestled and maintains control of F1. Panorama isnt what it used to be.

Ernest · Apr 28, 2014

On the day they demonise benefit claimants even more this comes up, what a shower of shite this government is

Creaky · Apr 28, 2014

The 'loophole' Bernie Ecclestone used is basically a fairly simple one.

You can gift any amount or property to your spouse without incurring capital gains or gift tax. If your spouse happens not to be British and does not live in the UK then HMRC has no control over the income of the recipient spouse - after all why should they?

Of course this course of action has its risks as Bernie Ecclestone found out when the couple divorced.

There are two potential courses of action to close this loophole, remove the exemptions for gifts between spouses or treat the assets and income of the two as a joint income. The first would be extremely unpopular amongst not just the rich and the latter would cost the revenue a fortune.

Tom Bombadil · Apr 28, 2014

I know a really nice bloke who works as VAT consultant. Without fail every expert in the field he mentions has worked at HMRC AND one of the big accountancy firms. To say the relationship between poachers and gamekeepers is cosy is putting it very mildly.

Psychobilly freakout · Apr 28, 2014

Triggaaar said:
This is the thing that bothers me most in our politics. Why do the public let the government allow these loopholes, for companies like Amazon and Starbucks, and rich individuals from Jimmy Car to Bernie.

Is it to do with funding thier parties, and popping the odd one or two on the payroll or board ?

Triggaaar · Apr 28, 2014

Psychobilly freakout said:
Is it to do with funding thier parties, and popping the odd one or two on the payroll or board ?

Well that's certainly something that can be considered regarding the parties, but what about the public? Why do we tolerate this? The conservatives got booted out for the poll tax. It wasn't even a bad tax (compared to the rates that existed before). If the public were as bothered about this as I feel they should be, it would become a voting issue, and governments would have to show their best suggestions to stop it. It costs our country billions.

melias shoes · Apr 28, 2014

Ernest said:
On the day they demonise benefit claimants even more this comes up, what a shower of shite this government is

I think you'll find that the DEAL was done in 2008. Yes they really were a shower of shite.

Psychobilly freakout · Apr 28, 2014

Triggaaar said:
Well that's certainly something that can be considered regarding the parties, but what about the public? Why do we tolerate this? The conservatives got booted out for the poll tax. It wasn't even a bad tax (compared to the rates that existed before). If the public were as bothered about this as I feel they should be, it would become a voting issue, and governments would have to show their best suggestions to stop it. It costs our country billions.

Because we are just so used to be being lied to about expenses, sex scandals, and funding by all the parties we know deep down this is how it works at the top and maybe because the hierarchy/rich/ upper class have always done what they wanted to in this country it is almost a tradition to be lied to and fecked over, we just know it's pointless.

Barrel of Fun · Apr 28, 2014

beorhthelm said:
was there two programmes on? i watched one which was pretty poor, a 5 minute item on a bribery case for Newsnight stretched out to 25min of "crime" du jour tax avoidance. would have been far more interesting to hear how he wrestled and maintains control of F1. Panorama isnt what it used to be.

Well, that's a separate programme about his efforts to own F1.

I appreciate you put crime in inverted commas, as it may well be a legitimate dodge. It is a crime. It's a crime that allows someone to hoard such wealth when many millions lack basic needs.

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