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Trains screwed



Badger

NOT the Honey Badger
NSC Patreon
May 8, 2007
12,750
Toronto
Not looking too great for London commuters.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/74587.aspx


A person has been hit by a train at Hassocks, this means the following changes apply:

  • Trains are being diverted via Lewes and will not call at stations between Wivelsfield and Brighton
  • Buses are running between Haywards Heath and Brighton
  • Trains travelling to, from or via Brighton may be delayed by up to 90 minutes
 


Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,645
Saw this news earlier. I'll get home when I get home. Think I can be patient for this one, sounds pretty awful.
 




Beach Hut

Brighton Bhuna Boy
Jul 5, 2003
71,906
Living In a Box
Worked out OK for me, got the 17:17 which was first direct out of Victoria however if you fancied getting on at either Clapham Junction, East Croydon or even Gatwick Airport not a great chance.
 


HawkTheSeagull

New member
Jan 31, 2012
9,122
Eastbourne
Unfortunately, this was the first fatality affecting Southern today. Reports that earlier this evening of an incident at Horley involving a kid.

Awful day for the staff involved, especially with a child involved.
 




worthingseagull123

Well-known member
May 5, 2012
2,575
Yesterday not Southerns fault and thoughts with driver and family.

Would like 2 know how they have managed 2 broken down trains at Clapham Junction and Balham this morning?
 


Badger

NOT the Honey Badger
NSC Patreon
May 8, 2007
12,750
Toronto
Yesterday not Southerns fault and thoughts with driver and family.

Would like 2 know how they have managed 2 broken down trains at Clapham Junction and Balham this morning?

Yes, yesterday was mildly frustrating but you certainly can't get angry.

Today is just back to normal, broken down trains and no doubt there will be a few signal and points failures (my money is on the bit between Gatwick and Three Bridges).
 


father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
Yesterday not Southerns fault and thoughts with driver and family.

Would like 2 know how they have managed 2 broken down trains at Clapham Junction and Balham this morning?


I think that Southern need to carry some blame for the way they [fail to] handle these problems (though not the actual cause).

For example.... by 5:00, there was a "regular" bus service running from HH to Brighton (albeit, I hear, not nearly enough buses involved). However, all the trains running south were being held up at Three Bridges where there were precisely zero buses. Large crowds on people milling on and off trains that were alternately "continuing on to HH" or "returning to London" with each announcement.
Don't get me started on Thameslink! They are a complete shambles when this sort of thing happens.

Given that these events occur with a reasonable frequency, Southern should have contingency plans in place that ALL their staff know and understand based on where the incident is and what type of incident it is. As soon as someone jumps in front of a train or one breaks down or Balcombe tunnel floods, then they should all turn to the appropriate page of the manual and implement "the plan".

As can be seen by this thread, people are forgiving of things genuinely out of their control, but the incompetence that frequently follows is what winds up regular travellers.
 






Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Jul 23, 2003
33,820
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
I think that Southern need to carry some blame for the way they [fail to] handle these problems (though not the actual cause).

For example.... by 5:00, there was a "regular" bus service running from HH to Brighton (albeit, I hear, not nearly enough buses involved). However, all the trains running south were being held up at Three Bridges where there were precisely zero buses. Large crowds on people milling on and off trains that were alternately "continuing on to HH" or "returning to London" with each announcement.
Don't get me started on Thameslink! They are a complete shambles when this sort of thing happens.

Given that these events occur with a reasonable frequency, Southern should have contingency plans in place that ALL their staff know and understand based on where the incident is and what type of incident it is. As soon as someone jumps in front of a train or one breaks down or Balcombe tunnel floods, then they should all turn to the appropriate page of the manual and implement "the plan".

As can be seen by this thread, people are forgiving of things genuinely out of their control, but the incompetence that frequently follows is what winds up regular travellers.

Exactly this. Had to get on at Gatwick yesterday. Was feeling in forgiving mood and, as always, thinking of driver, relatives and clean up crew. By 5.30 my good will had all but run out. We were told the 16.41 from Gatwick to Brighton was running and that it would be followed by an 8 car splitting half to L'hampton and half to Eastbourne. In fact the Brighton train (which had seats) was held between TB and HH and overtaken by ours- which only had 4 carriages, was not going to Eastbourne and had no aircon. We then stopped at HH for another 20 mins (having also been held at TB) while the commuters there played first train to leave lottery. All this time both Southern and FCC twitter feeds were insisting we'd have to go via Lewes or bus. In fact our train left all of a sudden on its normal route. The driver was literally making it up as he went along, it was clear he had not better information than us.

I know that stock and staff will be displaced but surely there has to be a disaster recovery plan? There are never enough replacement buses and never enough information. It's like it's the first time it's happened to them (and if the answer to that is 'where would you get adequate buses and drivers at that notice' my reply would be 'don't advertise that as plan b than')
 


Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
69,880
I know that stock and staff will be displaced but surely there has to be a disaster recovery plan? There are never enough replacement buses and never enough information. It's like it's the first time it's happened to them (and if the answer to that is 'where would you get adequate buses and drivers at that notice' my replay would be 'don't advertise that as plan b than')

Can't have a hundred replacement buses on permanent standby for a random jumper anywhere on the network. Lack of information is the one area that could be massively improved though, to at least give passengers a chance at making an informed decision on how to get where they need to be. Condolences as always BTW to the rail staff affected and those who have to deal with the aftermath.
 




Cosmic Joker

The Motorik
Apr 14, 2010
563
Chichester
... We then stopped at HH for another 20 mins (having also been held at TB) while the commuters there played first train to leave lottery. All this time both Southern and FCC twitter feeds were insisting we'd have to go via Lewes or bus. In fact our train left all of a sudden on its normal route. The driver was literally making it up as he went along, it was clear he had not better information than us. ...

Releasing the rail line through Hassocks back to the TOCs to run trains over was probably a British Transport Police decision, based on them being satisifed they had completed their investigations. Southern and even Network Rail may have had no control over or prior warning of this so was best for them to keep advertising the alternatives until informed by Network Rail the situation had changed.
 


father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
Can't have a hundred replacement buses on permanent standby for a random jumper anywhere on the network.

True, however, once buses ARE in place, they need to make sure that they are actually servicing the section of the line that's unusable. Yesterday saw hundreds being "dumped" on the platform at TB while the buses were happily shuttling from HH.

Whilst I can see an argument that runs "Once all the platforms at HH are blocked, we can't get any more trains in" - but this is completely predictable. The thing about timetables is you know how many trains will arrive over any given time period. Therefore if, say, you are running a train every 20 minutes and have 3 platforms available - at 60 minutes in you need to revise the plan and send the buses to the next station up the line instead, then when that one is full, say 60 mins later, you run the buses further still! This should be bread and butter stuff to someone. If they got this right 90% of the time, everyone would be so much more forgiving of the 10% when something spoils the plan.
 


father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
Releasing the rail line through Hassocks back to the TOCs to run trains over was probably a British Transport Police decision, based on them being satisifed they had completed their investigations. Southern and even Network Rail may have had no control over or prior warning of this so was best for them to keep advertising the alternatives until informed by Network Rail the situation had changed.

OH...that bring me back to the Thameslink issue I alluded to. The driver of my Thameslink train stuck at TB couldn't follow the alternative route because he wasn't certified (?) to go to Lewes. Therefore, several hundred more people are dumped on the platform at TB (where there are no buses) and he sits there blocking a platform.

I'm assuming "uncertified" means he doesn't know the way, because he hasn't been there before.


My complaints are now two-fold...

It's a metal rail from here to there that he cannot get off... how f*cking lost can he get?
Why are they allowing staff who are untrained in the "Plan B" requirements allowed to operate unsupervised?
 




Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Jul 23, 2003
33,820
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
OH...that bring me back to the Thameslink issue I alluded to. The driver of my Thameslink train stuck at TB couldn't follow the alternative route because he wasn't certified (?) to go to Lewes. Therefore, several hundred more people are dumped on the platform at TB (where there are no buses) and he sits there blocking a platform.

I'm assuming "uncertified" means he doesn't know the way, because he hasn't been there before.


My complaints are now two-fold...

It's a metal rail from here to there that he cannot get off... how f*cking lost can he get?
Why are they allowing staff who are untrained in the "Plan B" requirements allowed to operate unsupervised?

re 1) they apparently have to know the gradients, signal positions, hazards, braking distances etc. It's been on here and I know a driver. However....

re 2) blame privatisation / Thatcherism / franchises. A Thameslink / FCC driver will never normally have to go via Lewes so you can bet Southern won't train them on the route. Frankly ludicrous when you are trying to have a plan a, b and c on a stretch of line as at risk as the Brighton Mainline. Any sensible planning would have FCC staff regularly trained and refreshed on proper alternative routes and the establishment of BML2. Neither's going to happen and the people who suffer are the ones who pay circa 5k a year for the "service".
 


Since1982

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2006
1,482
Burgess Hill
Not a pretty sight especially if you were clearing it up i was

So sorry to hear that. I can't imagine how grim this must be. I live 10 minutes from the station and it was an unpleasant thought being so close to something so tragic but I really feel for those staff and other passengers directly impacted.
 



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