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Russian helicopters flying into Ukriane...
- Thread starter easynow
- Start date
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
4 HUGE TRANSPORTER PLANES LANDED IN THE CRIMEA
with 700 troops aboard
with 700 troops aboard
daveinprague
New member
And the people of the Crimea will be delighted to see them
Stumpy Tim
Well-known member
Russia has many military bases in the Crimea, so no huge surprise
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
Not sure the ethnic Tartars will be ( although they were mostly deported to Siberia by the Soviets).
A mex eyecan
Well-known member
- Nov 3, 2011
- 3,308
Here we go again, it seems every time nations people decide to rise up against the rulers to start with the world seems to think good on them, then very quickly it all turns so very nasty. Not saying it is so, but just maybe sometimes it's better the devil you know
Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
Without meaning to trivialise the situation there are clearly two main factions within Ukraine and the country is becoming polarised. I cannot condone the violence and am not a fan of Putin but ultimately Russia is protecting its interests and sympathisers in the Crimea.
How would we react if say (purely hypothetically) Scotland votes for independence, the rest of UK doesn't play ball, the Scots then take things into their own hands, things get a bit tense and the rest then send the troops in to protect UK interests? Worldwide condemnation or an understandable and reasonable reaction? Are we being hypocritical to challenge what is going on?
Is there any form of trustworthy democracy on either side of the debate in Ukraine?
Merely seeking the perceived wisdom........and whether a truly acceptable position exists on this?
How would we react if say (purely hypothetically) Scotland votes for independence, the rest of UK doesn't play ball, the Scots then take things into their own hands, things get a bit tense and the rest then send the troops in to protect UK interests? Worldwide condemnation or an understandable and reasonable reaction? Are we being hypocritical to challenge what is going on?
Is there any form of trustworthy democracy on either side of the debate in Ukraine?
Merely seeking the perceived wisdom........and whether a truly acceptable position exists on this?
Superseagull
Well-known member
- Jul 8, 2003
- 2,121
Another excuse for gas prices to rocket next year if any of it comes from, through or near Ukraine.
Blue Valkyrie
Not seen such Bravery!
You are right and wrong as it is so complicated.
It all went wrong when Putin decided he wanted to set up his Eurasian Customs Union and wanted Ukraine to be part of it.
This resulted in massive economic pressure and 'sanctions' being applied by Russia which caused Ukraine to scrap a trade deal with the EU.
Which was massively unpopular in the west of the country ( formerly Galicia, part of Poland, Austria / Hungary ) who had seen the Poles across the border triple their wealth in comparison to them.
So the current conflict.
Other points :
The democracy in Ukraine was pretty much a sham with rich Oligarchs controlling the politicians. So the game changed when the EU froze the Oligarch assets banked in the West. The next day Yanukovich was booted out.
The other point is that since the last elections Yanukovich increased the Presidential power, with nothing in the constitution to stop him doing so.
Crimea was only part of Ukraine from 1954 so you'll need to adjust the Scotland scenario a little. The story is that it was given to Ukraine by the Soviet leader Kruschev (sp?) when drunk, which sounds too much like a CIA tale.
So generally West leans to the EU, East to Russia, but it is also said that the younger easterners are more keen to join the EU than the older ones.
And finally most of what I read is that the majority in all regions - including Crimea - want to stay as one country.
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Seagull over Canaryland
Well-known member
.
And finally most of what I read is that the majority in all regions - including Crimea - want to stay as one country.[/QUOTE]
I'm with those who want Ukraine to remain as one country but suspect the momentum is now towards partition with more violence to come. Hope I'm wrong. If the West gets too involved then all sorts of counter-sanctions will come from Russia (gas, oil pipelines shut down, BP's exploration contracts cancelled etc). Also a handy Russian counterpoint to the West's position on Syria, which would be sad for the people there.
And finally most of what I read is that the majority in all regions - including Crimea - want to stay as one country.[/QUOTE]
I'm with those who want Ukraine to remain as one country but suspect the momentum is now towards partition with more violence to come. Hope I'm wrong. If the West gets too involved then all sorts of counter-sanctions will come from Russia (gas, oil pipelines shut down, BP's exploration contracts cancelled etc). Also a handy Russian counterpoint to the West's position on Syria, which would be sad for the people there.