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UPDATED: Dale Stephens SIGNS 3.5 Year Deal



dazzer6666

dazzer6666

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Mar 27, 2013
52,495
Burgess Hill
Stat Brother said:
Because it's already been explained.

Mooy plays considerably further up the pitch than Stephens.
He spends more time in the opposition's half than his own.

That doesn't sound like a direct replacement for Stephens to me.
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Missing point here perhaps is that our formation is different - even against Brum and Valencia, Stephens was higher up the pitch than we're used to seeing in the bus-parked formation of last season. The question is which of our 4 CMs will be most effective under Potterball, recognising tactics will be fluid. Could be a horses for courses question as we set up differently against differing opposition, or even during games. There is no 'straight swap' IMO. Mooy wouldn't be a 'direct replacement' for Stephens if we were deploying the same tactics as least season, but we're not ?
 




F

Farehamseagull

Solly March Fan Club
Nov 22, 2007
13,983
Sarisbury Green, Southampton
Stat Brother said:
Because it's already been explained.

Mooy plays considerably further up the pitch than Stephens.
He spends more time in the opposition's half than his own.

That doesn't sound like a direct replacement for Stephens to me.
Click to expand...

I think with the different formations we play now, it’s not as simple as having a player who is a designated ‘defensive midfielder’.

If we’re playing the 343 for example, there isn’t as much of a need for a defensive pivot as we are more fluid position wise and have less need for him to drop in to the back four. We need two central midfielders who can do a bit of everything - pass, block, tackle, get up the pitch, cross and shoot. Propper and Mooy could easily do that together as could Stephens and Propper and Stephens and Mooy. That’s one of the reasons why I think Mooy is an excellent signing.

Hands up I’m not Stephen’s biggest fan but I do actually think this system will suit him better as I don’t rate him as a defensive midfielder. His speed of recovery, positioning, reading of the game and tackling let him down a bit in that position for me.

I do rate his passing and his attitude on the pitch though and he has got a good engine. That’s why I think he’s better as more of an all round centre midfielder with a bit more freedom to go forward like when he first joined us.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,924
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Stumpy Tim said:
The 3-4-3 formation needs two ball-playing midfielders in the middle who can tackle, pass and keep positional discipline. There are now 3 experienced players we have who can do that - Propper, Stephens and Mooy. The heat maps may be different from last season, but that's because they played for different teams in different systems. Of course their heat maps will be different
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I'd love to agree with this point of view, but you appear to have used the words 'can tackle' and 'Propper' in the same statement...

Otherwise it's fine. I think Mooy could replace Stephens or Propper, but no way should Propper take Stephens role
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,803
Hove
Kalimantan Gull said:
I'd love to agree with this point of view, but you appear to have used the words 'can tackle' and 'Propper' in the same statement...

Otherwise it's fine. I think Mooy could replace Stephens or Propper, but no way should Propper take Stephens role
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It's where Holland have been deploying him as recently as the Holland v England game.
 




Nixonator

Nixonator

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2016
6,733
Shoreham Beach
A decent PL midfielder with obvious flaws. This will be the third PL manager who rates him as such (Hughton, Dyche, Potter).

Will always show for the ball, concentration and discipline high and has a fantastic range of passing.

Does have poor spells of form so hopefully with 4 very good midfielders it will improve his consistency.

We're lucky to have him, as finding similar (or better as some want) is much harder than people think.
 


L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
21,887
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Icy Gull said:
Who will be our midfield “enforcer” this season, apart from Mooy I can’t see that we have anyone who can fill that role. You are not saying we won’t need one are you?

I keep seeing posts that Stephens isn’t good enough but no suggestions as to who should replace him. He is an excellent lower PL midfielder imo and we are lower PL.
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I don’t accept the view that the job of making tackles is contracted out to one midfielder, this isn’t Ron Chopper Harris era football, the entire team must press as a unit. Part of my problem with Stephens is that he is often too late with tackles and quicker Prem players beat him to easily, never mind his ability on the ball.

But look he’s clearly got the shirt so we’ll see. That Stephens was dragged down by the poor performances of others is a credible view I accept and we will soon be able to weigh the evidence again.
 


L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
21,887
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Kalimantan Gull said:
I'd love to agree with this point of view, but you appear to have used the words 'can tackle' and 'Propper' in the same statement...

Otherwise it's fine. I think Mooy could replace Stephens or Propper, but no way should Propper take Stephens role
Click to expand...

Except when he did last season the results were pretty decent, go figure
 




Icy Gull

Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
London Irish said:
I don’t accept the view that the job of making tackles is contracted out to one midfielder, this isn’t Ron Chopper Harris era football, the entire team must press as a unit. Part of my problem with Stephens is that he is often too late with tackles and quicker Prem players beat him to easily, never mind his ability on the ball.

But look he’s clearly got the shirt so we’ll see. That Stephens was dragged down by the poor performances of others is a credible view I accept and we will soon be able to weigh the evidence again.
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Fair enough but we definitely need a midfielder who is strong on the ball and aware of his defensive duties when required. Propper and Bissouma do not fit the bill. It doesn’t mean we need a Ron Harris or a Jimmy Case as regrettably they would be sent off every game in the modern era.
 




Tom Hark Preston Park

Tom Hark Preston Park

Will Post For Cash
Jul 6, 2003
70,221
Will be very interesting, not to mention instructive, seeing Stephens coerced out of his comfort zone this season. Under GP he's unlikely to be patted on the head and given a straight 6/10 week in week out for constantly passing the ball sideways or backwards like he was under CH.
 




Stat Brother

Stat Brother

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Jul 11, 2003
73,750
West west west Sussex
Icy Gull said:
Fair enough but we definitely need a midfielder who is strong on the ball and aware of his defensive duties when required. Propper and Bissouma do not fit the bill. It doesn’t mean we need a Ron Harris or a Jimmy Case as regrettably they would be sent off every game in the modern era.
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Agreed, seemingly most of us are talking around the same point.

I'm sure Potter will want a player to perform a Stephens type role.
Hopefully that player will be further up the pitch.
In some games that player might not have to be so much of an 'enforcer'. (although that's me getting a little ahead of myself)
That player might not need to be Stephens.

Had the club signed Berge then 'Stephens has competition' would be spot on.
In Baluta the club clearly has a player earmarked to take over from Stephens (one day).
But Mooy just isn't the player that the idiot haters of Stephens want him to be.
 


Bold Seagull

Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,803
Hove
Tom Hark said:
Will be very interesting, not to mention instructive, seeing Stephens coerced out of his comfort zone this season. Under GP he's unlikely to be patted on the head and given a straight 6/10 week in week out for constantly passing the ball sideways or backwards like he was under CH.
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Didn't he have our highest number of long successful forward passes last season?
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,516
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Tom Hark said:
Will be very interesting, not to mention instructive, seeing Stephens coerced out of his comfort zone this season. Under GP he's unlikely to be patted on the head and given a straight 6/10 week in week out for constantly passing the ball sideways or backwards like he was under CH.
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I prefer to listen to the professionals, especially Inigo Calderon, who couldn't understand why the fans voted for any other player than Stephens, for Player of the Season. He said the fans just couldn't see what the team sees.
 










A

albion68

New member
Oct 27, 2011
228
The problem is Stephens and Propper don`t score enough goals ,if they scored more goals we would always be away from the relegation zone .Mooy does score goals though ,he has not been playing that well with Huddersfield but he will be invigorated coming back to the Premier League IMO .
 




L

London Irish

Well-known member
Nov 25, 2003
21,887
Trapped inside the Project for the New American Ce
Icy Gull said:
Fair enough but we definitely need a midfielder who is strong on the ball and aware of his defensive duties when required. Propper and Bissouma do not fit the bill. It doesn’t mean we need a Ron Harris or a Jimmy Case as regrettably they would be sent off every game in the modern era.
Click to expand...

All our midfielders need to be strong defensively, the days when any of them can't are long gone as any good manager will exploit the weakness. If you are right in your assessment of Propper and Bissouma, they won't play - but I don't think you are
 




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