Geoff Boycott and The Ashes.

Leekbrookgull · Jan 6, 2014

On the face of it,it seems very hard to disagree with Boycott's summary. :bigwave:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/10552033/The-Ashes-2013-14-England-should-be-ashamed-and-embarrassed-to-lose-so-abjectly-to-Australia.html

topbanana36 · Jan 6, 2014

Spot on but then Boycott is always honest. He has a record to back it up and knew how to do it.

BensGrandad · Jan 6, 2014

If we had had 1 or 2 openers with Boycotts application we would not have been beaten 5 - 0 we would possibly have got 5 draws and kept the Ashes boring but effective. We would have at least taken our first innings to 1.5 or 2 days, and or shut up shop for the 2nd innings to avoid defeat.

vegster · Jan 6, 2014

I can't agree with saying that the players need a rest, how do batsmen build up some form unless it is from spending time in the middle. I can understand the bowlers needing some rest but as a team I don't think we took many, if any, Test matches to a fifth day ? So they have played 20% less than a full tour anyway. The 5 th Test never even got to day 4 !

Maybe if the series was not compressed as it is with almost constant back to back Tests that would help. In times of yore there were always first class matches between the tourists and the state teams but that rarely happens now. That would have been a chance to find some form with bat and ball against lower standard opposition and iron out any imperfections or weaknesses.

Andy Flower is apparently giving an interview on 5Live about 7.50 this morning , I look forward to hearing a frank assessment of whet went wrong and how he can change it.......but we will probably get the usual management-speak blurb which actually says nothing.

banjo · Jan 6, 2014

I don't really know much about cricket but is there any reason why Boycott is not used in an advisory role for the England team ?
He might of been used but like I say I don't confess to know much about this sport.

fat old seagull · Jan 6, 2014

BensGrandad said:
If we had had 1 or 2 openers with Boycotts application we would not have been beaten 5 - 0 we would possibly have got 5 draws and kept the Ashes boring but effective. We would have at least taken our first innings to 1.5 or 2 days, and or shut up shop for the 2nd innings to avoid defeat.

This is probably true, unless of course he had all his team mates run out.

topbanana36 · Jan 6, 2014

banjo said:
I don't really know much about cricket but is there any reason why Boycott is not used in an advisory role for the England team ?
He might of been used but like I say I don't confess to know much about this sport.

He tells the truth and people can't take it, a bit like Brian Clough did.

banjo · Jan 6, 2014

topbanana36 said:
He tells the truth and people can't take it, a bit like Brian Clough did.

I think this is exactly what they need right now.

topbanana36 · Jan 6, 2014

:QUOTE=banjo;6112370]I think this is exactly what they need right now.[/QUOTE]

:thumbsup:

Mo Gosfield · Jan 6, 2014

vegster said:
I can't agree with saying that the players need a rest, how do batsmen build up some form unless it is from spending time in the middle. I can understand the bowlers needing some rest but as a team I don't think we took many, if any, Test matches to a fifth day ? So they have played 20% less than a full tour anyway. The 5 th Test never even got to day 4 !

Maybe if the series was not compressed as it is with almost constant back to back Tests that would help. In times of yore there were always first class matches between the tourists and the state teams but that rarely happens now. That would have been a chance to find some form with bat and ball against lower standard opposition and iron out any imperfections or weaknesses.

Andy Flower is apparently giving an interview on 5Live about 7.50 this morning , I look forward to hearing a frank assessment of whet went wrong and how he can change it.......but we will probably get the usual management-speak blurb which actually says nothing.

I'm with you there..on this business about players needing a rest.
Boycott has covered a lot of the ground that some of us have been banging on about for weeks. I was worried as early as the First Test...momentum swing etc...but posters on here didn't seem concerned....' we will turn it around and win the series '..( pretty similar to the attitude of the England management ) I was told not to panic by certain posters and I replied that I would be in full panic mode if we went 2-0 down. Still there were people on NSC confident of turning it around. I can only assume that they haven't played much cricket themselves and therefore have little or no idea how much it is played mentally.
I don't think giving Pietersen a rest will make a blind bit of difference to how he bats in Test cricket. He will still go out and throw his bat and give his wicket away in cavalier fashion. He has only ever played for himself. He puts pressure on other players and is allowed to carry on regardless in the England side. Mr Untouchable. The occasional cameo innings restoring his reputation.
David Clarke's decision to come out straightaway and confirm that Andy Flower will remain until 2015, irrespective, is astonishing. To do it now, whilst we are all still reeling from abject humiliation, when its so raw and painful, defies belief. Surely, we all deserve better than this. Surely there should be a period of analysis and retrospection to see if anything could have been done to prevent this and prepare better. To look at selectorial decisions from late summer to pre-tour to throughout series. To look at the performance of the captain and his relationship with the management. To analyse how the captain and mangement and all the senior players were totally unable to cope with any pressure. To look at the decision to take Trott and to allow Swann to walk out on his teammates. To ask the fundamental question why virtually all the senior players were ( in Boycott's words ) rubbish. To ask how a team that had lost 7 of its previous 9 Tests is suddenly and dramatically transformed and can thrash a team ranked above it, 5-0, without a single Test being close.
They musn't be allowed to get away with this...all this..." we'll regroup and come back stronger crap " This has been a national disaster of epic proportions. To carry on with the status quo as if nothing has really gone wrong calls into question the credibility of the ECB and sticks two fingers up to the England cricket supporters who want questions answered.
The press have to give them a hard time. Flower has to be roasted and flayed alive along with Cook and most of his teammates until Clarke and his cosy cronies maybe stop and think that they were a little premature in giving Flower the thumbs up.

Shropshire Seagull · Jan 6, 2014

The rest thing isn't just about playing matches - its the time in the "office" not just at "work".
International travel for international cricketers is probably the most demanding of all sports. Staying in hotels, practice routines must become very tiresome - 3 months at a time is hard to imagine living out of a suitcase, often away from family and friends.

A "rest" means being at home, clearing the mind, not just playing less cricket necessarily.

Ernest · Jan 6, 2014

Mo Gosfield said:
I'm with you there..on this business about players needing a rest.
Boycott has covered a lot of the ground that some of us have been banging on about for weeks. I was worried as early as the First Test...momentum swing etc...but posters on here didn't seem concerned....' we will turn it around and win the series '..( pretty similar to the attitude of the England management ) I was told not to panic by certain posters and I replied that I would be in full panic mode if we went 2-0 down. Still there were people on NSC confident of turning it around. I can only assume that they haven't played much cricket themselves and therefore have little or no idea how much it is played mentally.
I don't think giving Pietersen a rest will make a blind bit of difference to how he bats in Test cricket. He will still go out and throw his bat and give his wicket away in cavalier fashion. He has only ever played for himself. He puts pressure on other players and is allowed to carry on regardless in the England side. Mr Untouchable. The occasional cameo innings restoring his reputation.
David Clarke's decision to come out straightaway and confirm that Andy Flower will remain until 2015, irrespective, is astonishing. To do it now, whilst we are all still reeling from abject humiliation, when its so raw and painful, defies belief. Surely, we all deserve better than this. Surely there should be a period of analysis and retrospection to see if anything could have been done to prevent this and prepare better. To look at selectorial decisions from late summer to pre-tour to throughout series. To look at the performance of the captain and his relationship with the management. To analyse how the captain and mangement and all the senior players were totally unable to cope with any pressure. To look at the decision to take Trott and to allow Swann to walk out on his teammates. To ask the fundamental question why virtually all the senior players were ( in Boycott's words ) rubbish. To ask how a team that had lost 7 of its previous 9 Tests is suddenly and dramatically transformed and can thrash a team ranked above it, 5-0, without a single Test being close.
They musn't be allowed to get away with this...all this..." we'll regroup and come back stronger crap " This has been a national disaster of epic proportions. To carry on with the status quo as if nothing has really gone wrong calls into question the credibility of the ECB and sticks two fingers up to the England cricket supporters who want questions answered.
The press have to give them a hard time. Flower has to be roasted and flayed alive along with Cook and most of his teammates until Clarke and his cosy cronies maybe stop and think that they were a little premature in giving Flower the thumbs up.

Very true, it was obvious that things were going wrong in the 1st test that couldn't be called a blip but a long term problem. I don't think the present management are up to the task now

keaton · Jan 6, 2014

As per usual there's a lot of complaining from Boycott and not a lot of answers.
Except for we should get rid of some players (helpful)
and we should be playing Broad and Finn all next summer. So Finn (who's failed in two Ashes series in a good England team v average Aussie team) should be guaranteed a start as opposed to the players who've only failed in one series (for a miserable England team v A pretty good Aussie one).

Why should be involved in the England team? He's got no coaching experience at all and was a poor captain.

spring hall convert · Jan 6, 2014

Mo Gosfield said:
I'm with you there..on this business about players needing a rest.
Boycott has covered a lot of the ground that some of us have been banging on about for weeks. I was worried as early as the First Test...momentum swing etc...but posters on here didn't seem concerned....' we will turn it around and win the series '..( pretty similar to the attitude of the England management ) I was told not to panic by certain posters and I replied that I would be in full panic mode if we went 2-0 down. Still there were people on NSC confident of turning it around. I can only assume that they haven't played much cricket themselves and therefore have little or no idea how much it is played mentally.
I don't think giving Pietersen a rest will make a blind bit of difference to how he bats in Test cricket. He will still go out and throw his bat and give his wicket away in cavalier fashion. He has only ever played for himself. He puts pressure on other players and is allowed to carry on regardless in the England side. Mr Untouchable. The occasional cameo innings restoring his reputation.
David Clarke's decision to come out straightaway and confirm that Andy Flower will remain until 2015, irrespective, is astonishing. To do it now, whilst we are all still reeling from abject humiliation, when its so raw and painful, defies belief. Surely, we all deserve better than this. Surely there should be a period of analysis and retrospection to see if anything could have been done to prevent this and prepare better. To look at selectorial decisions from late summer to pre-tour to throughout series. To look at the performance of the captain and his relationship with the management. To analyse how the captain and mangement and all the senior players were totally unable to cope with any pressure. To look at the decision to take Trott and to allow Swann to walk out on his teammates. To ask the fundamental question why virtually all the senior players were ( in Boycott's words ) rubbish. To ask how a team that had lost 7 of its previous 9 Tests is suddenly and dramatically transformed and can thrash a team ranked above it, 5-0, without a single Test being close.
They musn't be allowed to get away with this...all this..." we'll regroup and come back stronger crap " This has been a national disaster of epic proportions. To carry on with the status quo as if nothing has really gone wrong calls into question the credibility of the ECB and sticks two fingers up to the England cricket supporters who want questions answered.
The press have to give them a hard time. Flower has to be roasted and flayed alive along with Cook and most of his teammates until Clarke and his cosy cronies maybe stop and think that they were a little premature in giving Flower the thumbs up.

I'm not sure I disagree with the thrust of what you say. However, England had a very good record of bouncing back from test defeats under Flower, hence I think the response from those that had seen us 1-0 abroad in New Zealand, Sri Lanka & India in recent years to our struggles at the start of the series.

Personally, I think despite this abject humiliation Flower has enough credit in the bank that if he wants to stay, he stays. As for Cook, I think it's only the paucity of cpataincy options available to us that keeps him in the job.

I also think you are being massively harsh on Pietersen. He played some poor shots early on in the series but definately did try and get his head down after that. The Aussies bowled magnificently to him. Remember, Cook has described this Aussie bowling attack as the best he's ever faced and he faced Warne, McGrath, Lee and AN other in 2006/7. As bad as we were with the bat (and we were BAD) they bowled superbly all series. Harris has a better test record than McGrath, an on song Johnson is a better bowler than Lee & Siddle, Watson & Lyon barely bowled a bad ball between them.

BrianWade4 · Jan 6, 2014

The man is a genius. Brilliant broadcaster and very insightful analysis on cricket

Shame he is no longer involved in the set-up

Weststander · Jan 6, 2014

Writing was on the wall last Summer.
Some marginal (but brilliant for us) wins, weather saved us a couple of times, and then the ECB didn't take the one day-ers and 20:20s seriously, where we started getting slaughtered. This gave Australia momentum and we allowed their batsmen who'd had an awful summer to play themselves into form.

Don't know how the bookies made us favourites for a series in their territory, with all the above.

Boycott, a fighter over an immensely long and prolific test career, always tells it as it is, and pleased he does rather than steering a middle ground to keep in with everyone.

vegster · Jan 6, 2014

keaton said:
As per usual there's a lot of complaining from Boycott and not a lot of answers.
Except for we should get rid of some players (helpful)
and we should be playing Broad and Finn all next summer. So Finn (who's failed in two Ashes series in a good England team v average Aussie team) should be guaranteed a start as opposed to the players who've only failed in one series (for a miserable England team v A pretty good Aussie one).

Why should be involved in the England team? He's got no coaching experience at all and was a poor captain.

Plenty of answers from Boycott, if you actually listen.
One of the primary solutions is about getting the mindset of players right when they are batting, ie shot selection, coping with pressure and learning how to build an innings. Boycott says that the current players can't cope with being tied down by good bowling and so flash the bat/try a reverse sweep off the wrong ball or try to hook even though the field is set exactly for that shot. Currently our batsmen are getting themselves out more than being bowled out and yet seem powerless to control themselves.
Boyc's blames the one day/20/20 game for players who feel they have to keep scoring at all costs rather than see the shine off the ball or see off the front line bowlers and then work the ball.

I can't argue against that.

Stumpy Tim · Jan 6, 2014

keaton said:
And we should be playing Broad and Finn all next summer. So Finn (who's failed in two Ashes series in a good England team v average Aussie team) should be guaranteed a start as opposed to the players who've only failed in one series (for a miserable England team v A pretty good Aussie one).

Why should be involved in the England team? He's got no coaching experience at all and was a poor captain.

I agree with you to an extent, but disagree with you (and agree with Boycott) on Finn. He should be an automatic pick for England... they picked Harmison for years when he was toilet. How Rankin can be picked above him is nothing short of ludicrous.

Hamilton · Jan 6, 2014

We performed so badly, one wonders whether the team met up with a betting syndicate during their stopover in Singapore?

mikeyjh · Jan 6, 2014

banjo said:
I don't really know much about cricket but is there any reason why Boycott is not used in an advisory role for the England team ?
He might of been used but like I say I don't confess to know much about this sport.

topbanana36 said:
He tells the truth and people can't take it, a bit like Brian Clough did.

Politics, same across all of corporate life, you can be as talented and knowledgeable as you like, but you need to play the game and Geoffrey, bless him, doesn't 'play the game'...

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