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Disciplinary Advice



Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
Hi guys,

often on here, and seem to get quite sensible replys, so thought it was best to post on your forum, in hope of some good advice.

Anyway..

At work, back in septemeber, I was issued with a verbal warning for poor timekeeping. I hold my hands up, and accept I should of done more to get to work on time.

I made changes to my journey, getting a earlier bus at 7am. This was working fine for a while, until road works in 2 places, within half of a mile eachother commenced. This caused a lot of traffic, and was making me late. Follwing a week of the roadworks, and being late twice that week, I looked into making changing further changes to my journey, or antoher way to solve the problem.

In the end, I decided the best thing to do was move closer to work, and i arranged for me to move in with my friend about 10 minutes walk from work. This was all agreed, moving date in place then my Gran suddenly passed away. with everything going on, the funeral etc. I put this on hold until after the funeral. Follwing my 1st day back at work, After my Grans funeral, I was handed a letter for a disciplinary hearing for 'poor timekeeping and failure to follow management instruction.

The failure to follow management instruction, is because when i have been late, And have accidently forgot to make up the time I was late on the same day, and instead made it up the next day. I have nto onced faield to make up the time owed.

I went into the meeting, and i explained as best i could about the situation, changes i have made,the death of my gran etc. I admitted i fully understand the needs of the business and I should adhere to my contracted hours.

meeting was adjourned, and when i went back in I was handed with a 'final written warning'.

Now, I accept Its my fault, but going from a verbal warning, straight to a final written is extreme. It also goes against their own handbook. These are the warning stages: I was on a stage 1, and have been moved to a stage 3 without a stage 2.

Stage 1: misconduct/unsatisfactory performance – verbal recorded warning
If your performance or conduct does not meet acceptable standards, you
will be issued with a Stage 1 verbal recorded warning in writing. This will set
out the nature of the misconduct or the performance concerns, the required
standards or objectives and the necessary measures for improvement
(including identifying any training needs where necessary).
In cases of unsatisfactory performance your manager will identify a
reasonable period of time for monitoring and improvement in which to
achieve the objectives. A written summary of the hearing will be sent to you.

Stage 2: first written warning
If the misconduct is sufficiently serious, or there is a failure to improve
performance or conduct during the current warning for the same type of
offence, you will be issued with a Stage 2 first written warning. This will
give details of the misconduct or failure to improve performance and the
improvement required (identifying any training needs where necessary). A
written summary of the hearing will be sent to you.


Stage 3: final written warning
If the offence is sufficiently serious or, there is still a failure to improve
performance, or there is continued misconduct, you will be issued with a
final written warning. This will give details as above in Stage 2 and will also
warn that failure to improve may lead to dismissal. A written summary of
the hearing will be sent to you.

any adivce I would be extremely greatful. I have chosen to appeal, So just hoping for some words of adivice.

many thanks

Stains fan.
 

Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
You need to put in a formal grievance about the company procedures not being followed. The handbook ( yes I know how ironic that is ) will tell you how to do this.

Put your case and what you would wish the outcome to be - i.e. you want the final written warning downgraded to a first written warning as per the company handbook.
 

MissGull

New member
Apr 1, 2013
1,994
It would be very difficult for them to sack you regarding poor timekeeping. Can you appeal your final written warning?
 

Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
You need to put in a formal grievance about the company procedures not being followed. The handbook ( yes I know how ironic that is ) will tell you how to do this.

Put your case and what you would wish the outcome to be - i.e. you want the final written warning downgraded to a first written warning as per the company handbook.

Can I do this? Even though I have only been with the company for 17 months? I thought, because of recently changed laws, in the comapnys favour, I have to off ben with them for 2 years.

I have stated in my appeal, I would reluctantly accept a first written warning, although this would not fall into the same punishment for the rest of the floor that i work on. Other people in my office, have had sevral verbal warnings for lateness.
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
Can I do this? Even though I have only been with the company for 17 months? I thought, because of recently changed laws, in the comapnys favour, I have to off ben with them for 2 years.

I have stated in my appeal, I would reluctantly accept a first written warning, although this would not fall into the same punishment for the rest of the floor that i work on. Other people in my office, have had sevral verbal warnings for lateness.

I think you're confusing the rights you have for redundancy and how easy it is for them to get rid of you before 2 years service with equal treatment that they have to stick to from day one of your employment. So if the handbook says the procedure is three stages ( and assuming it wasn't gross misconduct - which lack of timekeeping generally isn't ) then you have every right to raise a formal grievance regardless of how long you've been there. They should have also told you how long the written warning stays active.

They have followed procedures for your colleagues and have to follow the same procedures for you - which they clearly haven't.
 

Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
I think your confusing the rights you have for redundancy and how easy it is for them to get rid of you before 2 years service with equal treatment that they have to stick to from day one of your employment. So if the handbook says the procedure is three stages ( and assuming it wasn't gross misconduct - which lack of timekeeping generally isn't ) then you have every right to raise a formal grievance regardless of how long you've been there. They should have also told you how long the written warning stays active.

They have followed procedures for your colleagues and have to follow the same procedures for you - which they clearly haven't.

Ahh I see! I have not double checked it, Just what somebody told me. Thank you for clearing that up.

Thats the right, the handbook states 3, And also states that poor timekeeping is Misconduct.
The written warning, is for a period of 12 months, I have no worries of this being a problem and causing me to get sacked, Its just that I, and people I work with, feel I am being treated or punished differntly then to others who have had the same issue.
 


Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Apr 30, 2013
13,754
Herts
OK - first thing to say is that employment law is complex. On the basis of what has been said so far I would offer the following comments:

1. It is not clear that the company has broken their disciplinary process. The start of the para about a final written warning says "If the offence is sufficiently serious.....". This gives the company the option of skipping the first written warning stage if they choose. I would say that the policy should clearly state that they can skip one or more stages, which it doesn't in the parts you have quoted, but it may do so elsewhere?

2. You do not have to be employed for two years in order to invoke an internal appeal process; that restriction is for employment tribunals.

3. The fact that others have been given multiple verbal warnings may be highly significant. IF their cases are similar to yours, you may have a case for discrimination. However, unless you can get to an ET, it won't help you legally, but it may help you morally.

Now, a bit which you may not like (sorry). The reasons you cite for turning up late are unfortunate, but, imo, they are not enough for you to habitually be late. The company has the right to expect you to turn up on time except in extreme circumtances. You have shown mixed responses to the problem, some good (moving in with your mate for example), some less so ("forgetting" to make up the time on the day you're late, but "remembering" the following day).

Overall, it seems to me the company are sending you a message. The message could be either "if you want this job, don't ever be late again" or "Feck off, you lazy b*stard. Your card is marked and we'll get you out as soon as we can". I say the latter because you say that others have been treated more leniently. Please note that I am not accusing you of the latter - it's simply my interpretation of the fact that they've bypassed the first written warning stage.

My suggestion would be to decide whether you want this job badly enough to never be late again. If you do, try to negotiate the warning down to a first written warning (but be prepared that they may say "nope, your offences have been bad enough to warrant a final") and then never be late. If you want out, then it's probably best to simply accept the final warning and start looking for another job now.

Hope that helps....good luck!
 

piersa

Well-known member
Apr 17, 2011
3,155
London
Ahh I see! I have not double checked it, Just what somebody told me. Thank you for clearing that up.

Thats the right, the handbook states 3, And also states that poor timekeeping is Misconduct.
The written warning, is for a period of 12 months, I have no worries of this being a problem and causing me to get sacked, Its just that I, and people I work with, feel I am being treated or punished differntly then to others who have had the same issue.

To be blunt about it, do you get treated differently from other employees? Are you bad at your job? Do you get on with the bosses normally?
 

Nibble

New member
Jan 3, 2007
19,238
You my have a case if others have been treated differently but I'm pretty sure a company has the right to go directly to any stage in the disciplinary procedure if they feel it warranted. They will probably argue that each disciplinary is treated on a case by case basis and that your circumstances don't necessarily warrant the same treatment as ones that have come before. However, if you have made the effort to make your journey to work easier and can demonstrate this you may have a case.

I wouldn't put too much stock in what other staff "feel" or what things may appear like, it rarely bears up to scrutiny. If it were me I would take the final warning and make damned sure that I was never late for work again. I may also write a letter to the company bosses formally saying that you disagree with the decision but that are willing to accept it on the grounds that you wish to carry on with your job with as little friction as possible.
 


Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
To be blunt about it, do you get treated differently from other employees? Are you bad at your job? Do you get on with the bosses normally?

I dont see it my self, other then in this instance regarding the outcome of the disciplinary. But other memebrs of staff have pointed it out.

as for being bad at my job, I have the best AHT in my team, My after call work is slightly higher then the team average, but this reflects my AHT I Guess? I suppose other people just do most of it during the call, where I tend to do mine after. Get on with most of the bosses, Theres a couple who 'have it in for me'. My brother use to work here, and he was a right little shit, And the bosses to 'have it in for me' are his old bosses.
I have done nothing wrong to them as far as im aware.
 

Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
Average Handling Time. How long the call lasts.

Sorry, was in work mode.
 


Nibble

New member
Jan 3, 2007
19,238
To add, in my opinion if someone "has it in for you" you have two options: 1: Give them absolutely no excuse in the future to act on it. Never be late, do a good job and be pleasant to them (remember, it is only a job and you can surely live with a bit of false niceness to make sure you keep your job?). Or 2: Get looking for another job asap.
 

Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Apr 30, 2013
13,754
Herts
To add, in my opinion if someone "has it in for you" you have two options: 1: Give them absolutely no excuse in the future to act on it. Never be late, do a good job and be pleasant to them (remember, it is only a job and you can surely live with a bit of false niceness to make sure you keep your job?). Or 2: Get looking for another job asap.

Yep, indeed.
 

Bowers-sfc

forever red, never blue
Feb 20, 2011
234
To add, in my opinion if someone "has it in for you" you have two options: 1: Give them absolutely no excuse in the future to act on it. Never be late, do a good job and be pleasant to them (remember, it is only a job and you can surely live with a bit of false niceness to make sure you keep your job?). Or 2: Get looking for another job asap.

I agree, I admit me being late, is not acceptable, And i should of done more, earlier to make sure I was not late. I feel I do a good job, I get my head down and get on with it. not one to normally kick up a fuss, just like to be treated fairly.
 

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
45,891
at home
Average Handling Time. How long the call lasts.

Sorry, was in work mode.


Ahaaaa. I work for an American company and we have some humdingers!

OVM
ECAB

Any guesses?
 


Westdene Seagull

aka Cap'n Carl Firecrotch
NSC Licker Extraordinaire
Oct 27, 2003
20,922
The arse end of Hangleton
Ahaaaa. I work for an American company and we have some humdingers!

OVM
ECAB

Any guesses?

Given who you work for I'd suggest they are both around recovery times but I'm buggered if I can come up with any of the words !
 

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