Blog: Knight won't make a "penny profit" from any share sale

Brighton Breezy · Nov 18, 2013

For anyone interested, I did a blog HERE with comments from Dick Knight regarding his reasons for asking to hear whether or not fans are interested in potentially buying share.

Apologies to people getting Knight/Bloom/Share fatigue... The Derek Chapman thread seems to have descended into a biscuit debate. Not that you can ever have too any of them.

Mods: please do merge with another thread if you see fit. I didn't know which one to go with as there are quite a few...

Goldstone1976 · Nov 18, 2013

Nice blog, Walt. I'm sure that if DK does sell his shares at £1 each he won't make a profit, However, imo, any financial analysis would show that they are currently not worth remotely close to £1 each. Share prices can fall as well as go up... and all that.

PS - what do you mean that the DC thread has "descended" into a biscuit debate? Shurely, shome mishtake? "Ascended" is what I think you meant.

gripper stebson · Nov 18, 2013

Walt Jabsco said:
For anyone interested, I did a blog HERE with comments from Dick Knight regarding his reasons for asking to hear whether or not fans are interested in potentially buying share.

Apologies to people getting Knight/Bloom/Share fatigue... The Derek Chapman thread seems to have descended into a biscuit debate. Not that you can ever have too any of them.

Mods: please do merge with another thread if you see fit. I didn't know which one to go with as there are quite a few...

I'm sure this is the case. Dick is clearly Albion through and through but the fact that you have to buy his book to apply is what leaves a bit of a nasty taste...

Ernest · Nov 18, 2013

gripper stebson said:
I'm sure this is the case. Dick is clearly Albion through and through but the fact that you have to buy his book to apply is what leaves a bit of a nasty taste...

As well as the fact he is personally trousering the profits from the sale rather than going to AITC

Ninja Elephant · Nov 18, 2013

Walt, I read your posts at the start of the "Chapman hits back" thread, and your pro-Knight agenda is admirable but I fear a bit misguided. Or, well intentioned but disproportionate with the reality.

Dick Knight saved the club in the 90s and kept it running within his means. I think we all appreciate his work, apart from Bens Grandad, and there is no question that without him we wouldn't have taken the same path.

But your posts now lack balance, in my opinion. I am pro-Dick, but even I think there is a round story here, not this semi-circle you're writing about.

Ironically, you're talking about one half of the reality and Ernest is banging a drum about the other!

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 18, 2013

In reality a £1 share is worthless , Tony isn't going to buy from you at that price when he can dilute the shareholding even more by converting loans into shares and increase the percentage he already has.

Creaky · Nov 18, 2013

seagullsovergrimsby said:
In reality a £1 share is worthless , Tony isn't going to buy from you at that price when he can dilute the shareholding even more by converting loans into shares and increase the percentage he already has.

Normally when a company creates a rights issue the new shares have to be offered to all shareholders, (in proportion to the shares held), and not just to a single shareholder - so 'dilution' needn't necessarily occur.

Mutts Nuts · Nov 18, 2013

Ernest said:
As well as the fact he is personally trousering the profits from the sale rather than going to AITC

I never know which of your posts to take seriously,but Dick saved our club in it`s hour of need when no one else was prepared to.Now that the club is in good hands under the new Chairman, why should he not try to recoup some of the money he used in the process to help provide his grandchildren a secure future.

Stat Brother · Nov 18, 2013

2 very separate issues

Mutts Nuts said:
,but Dick saved our club in it`s hour of need when no one else was prepared to.Now that the club is in good hands under the new Chairman,

Abso-bloody-lutely, a feat for which he's a legend in my eyes, and always will be.

Mutts Nuts said:
why should he not try to recoup some of the money he used in the process to help provide his grandchildren a secure future.

If he wanted to secure his grandchildren's future why invest in a perennial loss making business, with no assets.
The only place his shares are worth a pound is to idiots like us, assuming you'll be buying too.

Does the latter cloud the former, not really, not in the whole scheme of things.

Ernest · Nov 18, 2013

Mutts Nuts said:
I never know which of your posts to take seriously,but Dick saved our club in it`s hour of need when no one else was prepared to.Now that the club is in good hands under the new Chairman, why should he not try to recoup some of the money he used in the process to help provide his grandchildren a secure future.

Can I have my forty quid back as well as the other money I donated through the years to help save the club ?

kevtherev · Nov 18, 2013

I find the most ironic part of the whole sorry saga, is that Dick doesn't want one man to be in sole charge. Yet that is exactly how he ran the club, despite the fact he wasn't in sole charge...This is the main part of the story where I think Dick loses his credibility and has scored a massive own goal...This being the over riding part of his argument, makes it appear as nothing more than stirring the shit from a man who wanted nothing more, than to be a dictator.

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 18, 2013

Creaky said:
Normally when a company creates a rights issue the new shares have to be offered to all shareholders, (in proportion to the shares held), and not just to a single shareholder - so 'dilution' needn't necessarily occur.

It does when TB converts £40M of his loan into share capital (see the club financial accounts 2011-2012)

Creaky · Nov 18, 2013

seagullsovergrimsby said:
It does when TB converts £40M of his loan into share capital (see the club financial accounts 2011-2012)

Presumably the other shareholders didn't want to take up their options to buy.

In order to keep the percentage shareholdings the same they would have had to come up with £20M between them

Goldstone1976 · Nov 18, 2013

Creaky said:
Presumably the other shareholders didn't want to take up their options to buy.

In order to keep the percentage shareholdings the same they would have had to come up with £20M between them

They wouldn't have any "option to buy" though. TB has a convertible loan note. When he put the loan(s) into the company he got a note which allowed him a coupon (currently 0%) and gave him the right to convert that loan into shares at a predetermined price. There would be no rights issue involved if TB wanted to convert his loan into equity. Thus, if he did convert, dilution is a 100% certainty.

Creaky · Nov 18, 2013

Goldstone1976 said:
They wouldn't have any "option to buy" though. TB has a convertible loan note. When he put the loan(s) into the company he got a note which allowed him a coupon (currently 0%) and gave him the right to convert that loan into shares at a predetermined price. There would be no rights issue involved if TB wanted to convert his loan into equity. Thus, if he did convert, dilution is a 100% certainty.

No mention of such an arrangement in the Annual Report

drew · Nov 18, 2013

Creaky said:
Normally when a company creates a rights issue the new shares have to be offered to all shareholders, (in proportion to the shares held), and not just to a single shareholder - so 'dilution' needn't necessarily occur.

But TB will be converting £90m (or there abouts) of loans, assuming that they aren't paid off by 2025, into equity in the club. The shares will not be about raising money!

Brighton Breezy · Nov 18, 2013

Ninja Elephant said:
Walt, I read your posts at the start of the "Chapman hits back" thread, and your pro-Knight agenda is admirable but I fear a bit misguided. Or, well intentioned but disproportionate with the reality.

Dick Knight saved the club in the 90s and kept it running within his means. I think we all appreciate his work, apart from Bens Grandad, and there is no question that without him we wouldn't have taken the same path.

But your posts now lack balance, in my opinion. I am pro-Dick, but even I think there is a round story here, not this semi-circle you're writing about.

Ironically, you're talking about one half of the reality and Ernest is banging a drum about the other!

I would like to think that blog has a fair bit of balance to it.

Right now I wouldn't consider myself either pro or anti either Bloom or Knight. I just think people shouldn't make rush judgement based on reading the most sensational extracts.

I think both are Albion legends. My overwhelming thought on it all is that I wish the pair got on.

seagullsovergrimsby · Nov 18, 2013

Walt Jabsco said:
My overwhelming thought on it all is that I wish the pair got on.

Can't see it myself they are too much like Tom & Jerry.

cloud · Nov 18, 2013

Ernest said:
Can I have my forty quid back as well as the other money I donated through the years to help save the club ?

Ninja Elephant · Nov 18, 2013

Walt Jabsco said:
I would like to think that blog has a fair bit of balance to it.

Right now I wouldn't consider myself either pro or anti either Bloom or Knight. I just think people shouldn't make rush judgement based on reading the most sensational extracts.

I think both are Albion legends. My overwhelming thought on it all is that I wish the pair got on.

I didn't think it did, but then I formed the opinion earlier today that you were firmly on the side of DK, and that you were vehemently supporting him when others were questioning his motives, note the first few pages of the Chapman thread.

I am not saying your comments were unfair or biased, not at all. Just that they were as pro-DK as other posts were pro-DC. I didn't think there was much balance in many of the posts at the start of that thread.

It is my opinion that I will read the book, as well as the extracts, before deciding how I think DK comes across in the book and how accurate I feel some of the stories are. But I do think DK deserves nothing but respect and appreciation for the sacrifices he made during his tenure at the club, and that without him there would be no story to tell. What happened 2005 and onwards is a separate story, only possible because of the work of Knight, and the others who deserve their story to be told.

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