Wales - is it time they actually did something

Simster · Nov 8, 2013

I was just glancing at their latest squad for their Finland game:

Wales squad to face Finland at Cardiff City Stadium on 16 November:

Goalkeepers: Wayne Hennessey, Glyn Myhill, Owain Fon Williams.
Defenders: James Collins, Ben Davies, Chris Gunter, Ashley Richards, Sam Ricketts, Neil Taylor, Rhoys Wiggins, Ashley Williams.
Midfielders: Joe Allen, David Cotterill, Andrew Crofts, Andy King, Joe Ledley, Aaron Ramsey, David Vaughan.
Forwards: Gareth Bale, Simon Church, Jermaine Easter, Hal Robson-Kanu, Sam Vokes.

They only have one "world class" player, but that's one more than most international teams. In addition, they have the Premier League's player of the season so far, a smattering of other Premier League players and others who are playing for fairly good Championship clubs, including one of our own.

Really and truthfully, isn't it about time Wales were able to be competitive in a qualifying competition? Other nations with small populations seem to be able to do it, including Iceland of course who have done so with a tenth of their population.

Questions · Nov 8, 2013

Simster said:
I was just glancing at their latest squad for their Finland game:

Wales squad to face Finland at Cardiff City Stadium on 16 November:

Goalkeepers: Wayne Hennessey, Glyn Myhill, Owain Fon Williams.
Defenders: James Collins, Ben Davies, Chris Gunter, Ashley Richards, Sam Ricketts, Neil Taylor, Rhoys Wiggins, Ashley Williams.
Midfielders: Joe Allen, David Cotterill, Andrew Crofts, Andy King, Joe Ledley, Aaron Ramsey, David Vaughan.
Forwards: Gareth Bale, Simon Church, Jermaine Easter, Hal Robson-Kanu, Sam Vokes.

They only have one "world class" player, but that's one more than most international teams. In addition, they have the Premier League's player of the season so far, a smattering of other Premier League players and others who are playing for fairly good Championship clubs, including one of our own.

Really and truthfully, isn't it about time Wales were able to be competitive in a qualifying competition? Other nations with small populations seem to be able to do it, including Iceland of course who have done so with a tenth of their population.

Another few months and you might have to add Ramsey to your world class list. He must be one of or even the best midfielder in the country at the moment.

seagully · Nov 8, 2013

I may start a new save on FM14 as Wales and see how far I can take them...

Stat Brother · Nov 8, 2013

It's seedings innit.

Keep the 'little guys' down while making sure all the big boys quality for the tournaments.
How many tournaments would England have qualified for if there were no seedings and no 'luck' of the draw?

It'll probably take the life cycle of that team to get them into an 'easy' qualification group.

Simster · Nov 8, 2013

Stat Brother said:
It's seedings innit.

Keep the 'little guys' down while making sure all the big boys quality for the tournaments.
How many tournaments would England have qualified for if there were no seedings and no 'luck' of the draw?

It'll probably take the life cycle of that team to get them into an 'easy' qualification group.

I did wonder about this but I'm not convinced. Again, plenty of small nations have made their mark. Denmark frequently qualify for tournaments or threaten to, and even WON one in the 90s. Croatia, Norway, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Scotland, N Ireland and Ireland have all got to the big tournaments.

Stat Brother · Nov 8, 2013

Simster said:
I did wonder about this but I'm not convinced. Again, plenty of small nations have made their mark. Denmark frequently qualify for tournaments or threaten to, and even WON one in the 90s. Croatia, Norway, Bulgaria, Switzerland, Scotland, N Ireland and Ireland have all got to the big tournaments.

Denmark didn't qualify for the tournament they won.

They are currently ranked FIFA 44, and are going up, 8 places last time.
The next Euros will have 23 qualifying from 53 teams, so they are in with a better shout than I thought.

It's never going to be easy unless they are a top 2 team in the group.
That's 4 tough games plus a bit of luck, needed.

You're definitely right though, if they can get close enough to the top table, quick enough, they should be there for a while.

edna krabappel · Nov 8, 2013

Simster said:
I was just glancing at their latest squad for their Finland game:

Wales squad to face Finland at Cardiff City Stadium on 16 November:

Goalkeepers: Wayne Hennessey, Glyn Myhill, Owain Fon Williams.
Defenders: James Collins, Ben Davies, Chris Gunter, Ashley Richards, Sam Ricketts, Neil Taylor, Rhoys Wiggins, Ashley Williams.
Midfielders: Joe Allen, David Cotterill, Andrew Crofts, Andy King, Joe Ledley, Aaron Ramsey, David Vaughan.
Forwards: Gareth Bale, Simon Church, Jermaine Easter, Hal Robson-Kanu, Sam Vokes.

They only have one "world class" player, but that's one more than most international teams. In addition, they have the Premier League's player of the season so far, a smattering of other Premier League players and others who are playing for fairly good Championship clubs, including one of our own.

Really and truthfully, isn't it about time Wales were able to be competitive in a qualifying competition? Other nations with small populations seem to be able to do it, including Iceland of course who have done so with a tenth of their population.

I suppose one way of looking at it would be to ask how many of them would get into England's squad. Bale, obviously, Ramsey clearly on current form. Joe Allen might have got a go a couple of years back but is miles off now. Ashley Williams might just be hearing his name mentioned as a back up centre half.

But Simon Church isn't even good enough to be a Championship striker. Hal Robson-Kanu, Jazz Richards, Rhoys Wiggins?? That's why Wales don't qualify for tournaments.

drew · Nov 8, 2013

Stat Brother said:
It's seedings innit.

Keep the 'little guys' down while making sure all the big boys quality for the tournaments.
How many tournaments would England have qualified for if there were no seedings and no 'luck' of the draw?

It'll probably take the life cycle of that team to get them into an 'easy' qualification group.

Your comments seem to suggest the seedings are corrupt. Surely at major tournaments you want to see the top teams hence the qualifying are seeded so it is weighted in their favour. Up to the minor teams to perform and improve their rankings. Without the seedings, you could have a qualifying group of Germany, Italy, Spain and England and in another group, Moldova, San Marino, Luxembourg and Andorra!!!!

edna krabappel · Nov 8, 2013

drew said:
and in another group, Moldova, San Marino, Luxembourg and Andorra!!!!

And Scotland.

Pavilionaire · Nov 8, 2013

I don't see that Welsh squad as being anything special or better than what has gone before. They had a great squad in the 80s and did nothing - Southall, Ratcliffe, Van Den Hauwe, Rush, Hughes, Saunders etc.

hans kraay fan club · Nov 8, 2013

edna krabappel said:
I suppose one way of looking at it would be to ask how many of them would get into England's squad. Bale, obviously, Ramsey clearly on current form. Joe Allen might have got a go a couple of years back but is miles off now. Ashley Williams might just be hearing his name mentioned as a back up centre half.

But Simon Church isn't even good enough to be a Championship striker. Hal Robson-Kanu, Jazz Richards, Rhoys Wiggins?? That's why Wales don't qualify for tournaments.

This. Two good players and a load of dross. Simster's been drinking.

Horsham Gull · Nov 8, 2013

They only have one "world class" player,

Crofts?

imissworthing2 · Nov 8, 2013

They were starting to get things going under Gary Speed. Someone can check their fifa rankings but I'm sure they were pretty high. I went to Speed's last game in charge: a 3-0 victory vs Norway in a friendly and they completely tore them apart. Played 4-5-1 with a midfield of Bale and Bellamy on the wings and Ramsey, Allen and Crofts in the middle . Morrison was upfront on his own just to hold the ball up.

They looked destined to make a real challenge in the next campaign but unfortunately we'll never know. The welsh fans I speak to don't rate Coleman, probably due to how things are going considering that he has the same players to work with as Speed had.

Stat Brother · Nov 8, 2013

drew said:
Your comments seem to suggest the seedings are corrupt. Surely at major tournaments you want to see the top teams hence the qualifying are seeded so it is weighted in their favour. Up to the minor teams to perform and improve their rankings. Without the seedings, you could have a qualifying group of Germany, Italy, Spain and England and in another group, Moldova, San Marino, Luxembourg and Andorra!!!!

No not corrupt, not in the usual FIFA sense of the word.
But it is a situation heavily weighted to the 'haves', leaving the 'have not's' on the outside looking in.
Admitidly not really knowing how the points are doled out, it's hard to to suggest how to improve the system, but still stop the 2 groups you suggest.
It seems like a slow stopping tanker, maybe if the points differential was increased, form countries would be promoted up the rankings quicker.

How many times have the rankings been mocked when England have been fourth (or whatever).

mwrpoole · Nov 9, 2013

Stat Brother said:
No not corrupt, not in the usual FIFA sense of the word.
But it is a situation heavily weighted to the 'haves', leaving the 'have not's' on the outside looking in.
Admitidly not really knowing how the points are doled out, it's hard to to suggest how to improve the system, but still stop the 2 groups you suggest.
It seems like a slow stopping tanker, maybe if the points differential was increased, form countries would be promoted up the rankings quicker.

How many times have the rankings been mocked when England have been fourth (or whatever).

I think they do it on where you finish in your group last time out, so group winners in pot 1, runners up in pot 2 and so on.

Baron Pepperpot · Nov 9, 2013

mwrpoole said:
I think they do it on where you finish in your group last time out, so group winners in pot 1, runners up in pot 2 and so on.

I'm sure it's done on the seedlings at that time. Although some teams are discretely kept apart. Much better than the subjective days of old when England qualified for the finals and were guaranteed a seeding to keep there fans in one place.

Was not Was · Nov 9, 2013

edna krabappel said:
And Scotland.

... from which Scotland would narrowly - and heroically - fail to qualify, of course.

Lord Bracknell · Nov 9, 2013

Some of us remember the 1958 World Cup finals, when all four UK countries played, and Wales and Northern Ireland reached the Quarter Finals. England and Scotland didn't - they both failed to win ANY of their group games.

It was a good time to be living in Wales.

Qualifying teams:-

Sweden
West Germany
Austria
France
Czechoslovakia
Hungary
Soviet Union
Yugoslavia
England
Northern Ireland
Scotland
Wales
Argentina
Brazil
Mexico
Paraguay

Gwylan · Nov 9, 2013

Don't forget that, in south Wales, at least football is not the major sport. If you're talented at sport, you're probably going to opt for rugby. For example, Gareth Edwards was apparently a superb footballer but opted to play the national game.

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Wales - is it time they actually did something

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