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Strange goings on at Spurs re 'Y-word' and Met approach



Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
Just come across this summary of a meeting between fans, club and the Met regarding use and possible prosecution for using the word 'Yid'.

I think the most amazing thing about this is that the Met, who admit they don't know if a prosecution of a Spurs fan for singing it proudly would stick under the Public Order Act section 5, say context is irrelevant.

So a bunch of Spurs fans singing 'We are the Yids' is viewed as exactly the same as a psycho opposition fan using the term with a hail of foul language and threatening behaviour. This is nuts.

It 's like saying a few Brighton fans singing '1-0 to the nancy boys' is as bad as lunatic coming up to an Albion fan in front of kids and saying 'You f****** gay AIDS-ridden C***'.

Anyway, here are the minutes:



THST meeting with Met Police and THFC - 21st October 2013



Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust

Meeting with the Metropolitan Police and Tottenham Hotspur Football Club re Y Word



Notes

Monday 21st October 2013

7.00pm – 8.30pm

Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, N17




Attendees

Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson, Metropolitan Police

Constable Steve Payne, Football Intelligence Officer, Scotland Yard

Constable Pat Brown, Metropolitan Police

Donna-Maria Cullen, Executive Director, THFC

Sue Tilling, Safety Officer, THFC

Jonathan Waite, Customer Services and Supporter Liaison Manager, THFC

Darren Alexander, Joint Chairman, THST

Katrina Law, Secretary, THST

Ellie Kershaw, THST

Notes from the meeting are as below. Owing to the sensitive nature of some of the subject matter, THST is not able to release full minutes from this session.

Build up to current position on Y Word
•Chief Superintendent Mick Johnson explained how c 18 months ago, certain lawyers began to make complaints about the Y Word
• The Met were obliged to investigate its’ impact on the community: was this offensive? What was the likelihood to offend?
•They undertook a Community Impact Assessment, a copy of which has been requested by THST
•The complaints have now reached a level where The Met have decided the word is offensive
•THST questioned what had prompted the turnaround from the FA Statement of 9th September to the Met Statement of 3rd October
•The Met confirmed there had been an increase in the number of complaints about the Y Word and that the situation had been heightened by external comments over the past few weeks
•THST questioned, in this day and age, whether there was anything left that didn’t offend people. Were people being offended on other peoples’ behalf?
•The Met stated it is no longer about the intention of causing offence but about another person taking offence
•That person doesn’t have to be in the stadium. A member of a TV audience could make a complaint and that would count
•Those arrested for chanting the Y word will be charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. With the ‘intent’ clause covered off, as above
•Whilst The Met consider there to be enough of a basis for the word to be classed as a hate word and that it is offensive regardless of context and intent, whether there is actually sufficient basis for a prosecution remains to be seen
•The fan arrested at the West Ham game is currently on bail pending charges. On 19th November, a decision will be made by the CPS as to whether there are sufficient grounds on which to make a prosecution for using the Y Word
•THST expressed concern that should the CPS decide to drop all charges, The Met would continue to arrest Spurs fans until they found one they could prosecute
•There was, however, an agreement that a test case was needed to force a decision on this matter

Spurs Fans use of the Y Word
•THST remained adamant that no Spurs fan uses the Y Word maliciously
•THST expressed concern that this whole movement was being driven by certain individuals with their own agendas, not with combatting anti-Semitism at its’ heart
•THST commented that the FA had taken the easiest option by targeting Spurs fans and not looking at the opposition fans, where genuine anti-Semitism existed

Opposition fans anti-Semitism
•The Met confirmed that any time an opposition fan uses the Y Word, they view it as offensive and therefore a crime
•Their policy for Spurs fans is to warn them before arresting. With opposition fans, a warning wouldn’t be needed. They would be arrested
•THST argued that the Y Word is seldom levelled at Spurs fans by opposing supporters. It is normally ’Jew’, prefixed by a swear word
•THST was incredulous that the behaviour of the West Ham United fans pre game, captured on video, during the match and post game across social media networks had seemingly gone unpunished whilst a Spurs fan had been arrested for singing a song he has sung for decades
•The Met confirmed that 5 West Ham fans had been arrested following a skirmish on the High Road post match
•THST questioned why Police had not intervened and arrested the fans caught on video on Tottenham High Road pre game, shouting anti-Semitic chants, when they were surrounded by Police. This was a call made by the Officers at the time to prevent further crowd disorder
•THST took the opportunity to pass a dossier of anti-Semitic tweets onto the Met for investigation
•THST will also be working closely with a dedicated department established to address anti-Semitism on social media within the Met
•The Met confirmed that 3 Aston Villa fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during the game on Sunday
•The Met also confirmed that 8 West Ham fans had been arrested for anti-Semitism during their match with Stoke City
•THST also flagged the different interpretation of the law by different Police forces. If it was a hate word and a criminal offence to use the term in London, surely it was in Birmingham or Liverpool also? The Met responded that each force had their own priorities and that the Y Word wasn’t as prevalent in other cities

THFC Consultation Paper
•THFC issued their consultation paper to all Season Ticket Holders and Members on Friday, 18th October
•Populus, the company running the survey, have reportedly received over 8000 responses already, which is unprecedented. This indicates the depth of feeling amongst Spurs fans on this subject
•THST questioned why the Met couldn’t have waited until after THFC had run their consultation before deciding it was a criminal offence to use the word within a match day environment
•Should the individual arrested at West Ham face charges and be found guilty, the consultation would be irrelevant anyway as continued use of the ‘Yid’ identity would be a crime
•THST commented the Met’s approach seemed ill timed and heavy handed
•The Met reiterated their position

Conclusion
•The Met consider the use of the Y Word in any context to be a crime
•Whether it is a crime that can be prosecuted or not remains to be seen
•The Met confirmed that there will be a sensible level of policing at the home games ahead of the CPS’s decision on whether to prosecute the fan arrested at the West Ham United match on 19th November

Meeting concluded at 8.30pm
 


Green Cross Code Man

Wunt be druv
Mar 30, 2006
19,632
Eastbourne
If the met are saying that the contextual use of a word is irrelevant, then I would fully expect them to arrest rap artists who keep using the 'n' word.
 


Da Man Clay

T'Blades
Dec 16, 2004
16,254
Yeah, good luck getting a prosecution where they don't prove intent. It's one of the required points to prove for the offence. The met don't get to decide what bits of the law they get to apply.

Nb - there is a caveat about 'being aware that such words or behaviour was likely to have that effect'. I still can't seem them proving that.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 11, 2003
59,203
The Fatherland
If the met are saying that the contextual use of a word is irrelevant, then I would fully expect them to arrest rap artists who keep using the 'n' word.

And surely Tooting Gull should be nicked for using the word in his post?
 


Dandyman

In London village.
THST seem to talking sense particularly about certain lawyers and their agendas.
 



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