Legal Advice - Interview Under Caution

JohnDoe · Oct 6, 2013

Hi all, I contacted the mods asking for permission to create this profile in order to post a rather shaming set of circumstances and questions I'd not rather post 'publicly', so to speak - I've been here for years, and am a pretty active NSC poster.

If anyone has advice or pointers, please let me know, here or as a PM.

I really appreciate it.

JohnDoe · Oct 6, 2013

I have received a letter from my local council in London, asking me to attend an interview under caution, the reason being that "it is alleged that whilst claiming and continuing to receive Housing Benefit, you have failed to promptly notify changes in circumstances to the Benefit Service in that your JSA ceased and you started work."

The point of this post is to garner advice, pure and simple - it is pointless here pleading innocence when overpayments did happen, nor guilt as there was no intent on my part. I am guilty of failing to notify, but not in intent to defraud.

I work in London on short term agency contracts. I signed on in August last year, but after signing off in September, housing benefits continued to be paid into my account until last month. I didn't realise this. In August this year I again signed on and applied for housing benefit. Which is when the council must have seen they were already paying into my account, investigated and sent me the letter I received on Friday. Looking in detail at my statements over the past two days, housing benefit has previously always ceased when I signed off - despite never having told them directly. I know that I should have told them but I didn't.

So, my questions:
From my internet research, I am coming across different points of view from organisations - lawyers who say that I "must not contact the council directly or attend the interview alone"; I "must however contact a criminal defence solicitor, and an independent advisor in welfare benefits." However, another lawyer site suggests one course of action is to find out what the suspicions are (which I know) which could lead to being able to sort it out without an interview - this is my instinct, to contact them and explain, and offer to pay the money back promptly.

Also, "If you...have not been able to get professional legal advice (or can’t afford to pay for it), you should write a very short note to the benefits office telling them why you can’t attend." Is this sensible? I can't afford to pay for advice/solicitors, so is there advice freely available?

I am going to the Citizen's Advice Bureau first thing tomorrow morning and hope they'll be able to offer some pointers, but aside from that I feel all at sea.

Is there anyone here with practical experience of these situations? Any, I say any advice is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

cloud · Oct 6, 2013

Good luck with getting anywhere with the Citizens Advice Bureau, now that most of the ones in London have either closed or never answer the phone. I think the Paddington one you can turn up to, but don't waste hours trying to get through to anyone on the phone as I suspect they're not manned.

Lord Bracknell · Oct 6, 2013

"An interview under caution" surely means that the council will listen to what you have to say, and take it into account. If you subsequently change the story, they will hold that against you.

They want to know if you've been overpaid housing benefits. You say that this is indeed the case. The wrong thing to do is to deny this, when under caution. The right thing to do is admit it, and explain how the situation came about. Then you can negotiate an arrangement to repay any overpayments, and avoid an accusation that you had a fraudulent intent.

KZNSeagull · Oct 6, 2013

Is this the first correspondence you have had on this matter from them? I would have thought that writing back accepting that you have been overpaid but that it was an honest mistake and that you would like to come to arrangements on repayment would suffice and they would not take it any further. They may even cancel the interview as they have found out what they wanted to know.

Mackenzie · Oct 6, 2013

I'd go along with that. You weren't trying to diddle anyone, it sounds like an honest mistake. I think you need to resign yourself to having to pay back the money, perhaps ask them for advice in how to go about it during the interview given the stop start nature of your work.

Good luck, and try not to worry.

:thumbsup:

happypig · Oct 6, 2013

From what you've said, you were receiving HB without entitlement (whether deliberately or not) for nearly a year so that's quite a big chunk of money. I've only dealt with cases that have come to court obviously but I do know that there is a monetary threshold, above which they prosecute but below which they seek to recover the money and, I think, impose a penalty. I would think that you may be above that.
It's an imprisonable offence (although I've never sat on a case where we've jailed someone) so you are entitled to legal aid (as long as you qualify). I would STRONGLY advise that you get legal advice before you attend any interview. If you can pay back the money (or a significant part of it) then the court would be likely to look favourably on that as evidence of genuine remorse.
Be aware though, that they will recover the overpayment, even if it takes fifty years.

EDS · Oct 6, 2013

Housing benefit per month has to be at least nine hundred pound, surely if you never knew then you would still have this money, if that is the case then just admit the mistake, say you assumed housing benefit would cease when youre JSA finished and that you still have all the money in your account and they can have it back at once. There is no way they can take it further.
Also DO NOT contact them directly but wait for the interview as it will all be on tape.

BensGrandad · Oct 6, 2013

Eaglesdestroyseagulls said:
Housing benefit per month has to be at least nine hundred pound, surely if you never knew then you would still have this money, if that is the case then just admit the mistake, say you assumed housing benefit would cease when youre JSA finished and that you still have all the money in your account and they can have it back at once. There is no way they can take it further.
Also DO NOT contact them directly but wait for the interview as it will all be on tape.

Just reading that, are you suggesting that if Housing Benefit is less than £900 per month the DWP or Council cant do anything as I would think that the vast majority of HB is less than that each month generally.

EDS · Oct 6, 2013

BensGrandad said:
Just reading that, are you suggesting that if Housing Benefit is less than £900 per month the DWP or Council cant do anything as I would think that the vast majority of HB is less than that each month generally.

No I am suggesting it would be quite unvelievable for the avergae person to not notice such an amount of money to go into a bank account every month, now if he was no longer using rhe said account and never realised then that would make sense, so just explain and pay back the money. Now if on the other hand he has "accidentally" spent that money then I would see a solicitot as that is just not believable.
I was assuming he lives in London or Brighton in which case nine hundred is not far off the mark.

JohnDoe · Oct 6, 2013

Thanks for your thoughts. The amount is around £4000, after £300 a month for about a year. I have sent some PMs, thanks.

Beach Hut · Oct 6, 2013

What you haven't said unless I have mis-read it is do you actually still have the overpaid money ?

Surely if you do you can just pay it back as an honest mistake as you never checked your bank account ?

Petunia · Oct 6, 2013

Beach Hut said:
What you haven't said unless I have mis-read it is do you actually still have the overpaid money ?

Surely if you do you can just pay it back as an honest mistake as you never checked your bank account ?

Beat me to it BH

JohnDoe · Oct 6, 2013

Do I have it? No, as I didn't realise I had it in the first place. But I have a credit card that can cover it.

Bevendean Hillbilly · Oct 6, 2013

Like the others have said..ldont be afraid. Just tell them what happened and move on.

You have to be pretty shit at fraud to apply for two sets of housing benefit in your name to be payed into the same account.

Beach Hut · Oct 6, 2013

JohnDoe said:
Do I have it? No, as I didn't realise I had it in the first place. But I have a credit card that can cover it.

OK but surely if you need housing benefit the last thing you want is £4K on a credit card or am I missing the point here

JohnDoe · Oct 6, 2013

The last thing I want is an interview under caution. Credit card bills I can deal with!

Beach Hut · Oct 6, 2013

JohnDoe said:
The last thing I want is an interview under caution. Credit card bills I can deal with!

I must be a bit stupid here, how can you possibly pay a £4K credit card bill if you need benefits ?

seagullsovergrimsby · Oct 6, 2013

Beach Hut said:
OK but surely if you need housing benefit the last thing you want is £4K on a credit card or am I missing the point here

£4K on a credit card will eventually be paid off , a criminal record on the other hand if the Council decide to make an example ? Alternatively a repayment schedule might be an option over several years ?

EDS · Oct 6, 2013

JohnDoe said:
The last thing I want is an interview under caution. Credit card bills I can deal with!

The thing is they may not just have you paying it back in their minds, Considering you have spent the money. I would know if I had an extra £300 per month coming through my personal account, especially over the course of a year. An interview under caution in this respect is not exactly worrying, they will just tape the conversation and caution you that anything you say, may be used against you in a court of law, which is pretty obvious anyway.
Why do you not contacta solicitor? you may be entitled to legal aid and most solicitors offer an hour or half hour free consultation anyway.

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