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  1. #1
    Members Creaky's Avatar
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    Is the FFP system justified?


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    Much has been discussed about the effects of FFP on the behaviour of clubs and what further measures need to be taken to achieve real FFP.

    What I haven't seen is much discussion as to whether or not the system itself is justified and whether or not it infringes on individuals rights to run the clubs they own in the way want.

    If I decided to set up a business making and selling widgets as a hobby then there is nothing to stop me buying an existing widget company, spending as much as I want to buy the best possible manufacturing processes, offer as high a pay structure as I want in order to get the best possible production staff and the best possible sales force.

    I could sell those widgets at a loss, undercutting the opposition and becoming the biggest and best widget seller in the country - nobody can turn round and say you can't do that. So long as I have the financial substance to carry this out then I can pursue my hobby without interference.

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    • #2
      Members Herr Tubthumper's Avatar
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      This has been discussed many times before. The FL FFP was voted in democratically by its member clubs. It does not infringe on the members right's as it was the members who wanted it.

      And why start a new thread?
      "I will design a town in the image of your face. Round the wrinkles of your eyes my footsteps you can trace. We could promenade down infra-nasel depression. The streets of your hands will never feel a recession."
    • #3
      Surrounded by <div>s Grombleton's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Creaky View Post
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      Much has been discussed about the effects of FFP on the behaviour of clubs and what further measures need to be taken to achieve real FFP.

      What I haven't seen is much discussion as to whether or not the system itself is justified and whether or not it infringes on individuals rights to run the clubs they own in the way want.

      If I decided to set up a business making and selling widgets as a hobby then there is nothing to stop me buying an existing widget company, spending as much as I want to buy the best possible manufacturing processes, offer as high a pay structure as I want in order to get the best possible production staff and the best possible sales force.

      I could sell those widgets at a loss, undercutting the opposition and becoming the biggest and best widget seller in the country - nobody can turn round and say you can't do that. So long as I have the financial substance to carry this out then I can pursue my hobby without interference.
      That's all correct in theory, but the football clubs are also governed by a higher body - if they set a rule, they are obligated to adhere to it.
    • #4
      Members Creaky's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Herr Tubthumper View Post
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      This has been discussed many times before. The FL FFP was voted in democratically by its member clubs. It does not infringe on the members right's as it was the members who wanted it.

      And why start a new thread?
      Why not

      So because a majority of league members at a point in time voted in favour of a rule this cannot be challenged at some time in the future? It's also difficult to see why many clubs pay lip service to the system they "support" whilst at the same time trying to find ways of circumventing the rules and/or ignoring them.

      I just find it interesting that such a system seems to have been publicly accepted as a "good thing" by all sectors, (apart from a number of agents who are making a legal challenge), owners, players and fans, without questioning the justification for it.
    • #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Herr Tubthumper View Post
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      This has been discussed many times before. The FL FFP was voted in democratically by its member clubs. It does not infringe on the members right's as it was the members who wanted it.

      And why start a new thread?

      It is a restriction on business practice, I'd be very surprised if it survived a legal challenge at the end of the day, and in this respect I'm sure it won't be with us forever.
    • #6
      Members Herr Tubthumper's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by sparkie View Post
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      It is a restriction on business practice, I'd be very surprised if it survived a legal challenge at the end of the day, and in this respect I'm sure it won't be with us forever.
      But each FL club chose to adhere to certain rules and regulations when they signed up to become a member. Rules and regulations which they also helped develop and then chose via a vote. It was their choice. And each club has chosen FFP via the terms of their membership. It's no different to many other self-regulatory groups or voluntary bodies/codes of conduct which other industries decide sign up to.
      "I will design a town in the image of your face. Round the wrinkles of your eyes my footsteps you can trace. We could promenade down infra-nasel depression. The streets of your hands will never feel a recession."
    • #7

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      Of course it is. Player wages should be the first things cut.

      Craig Conway, for example. Whatever he gets paid, he doesn't deserve even half after his "performance" yesterday. He is the reason why bringing in a load of loans isn't the answer. Couldn't have cared less.
    • #8
      Dullard Thunder Bolt's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Herr Tubthumper View Post
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      But each FL club chose to adhere to certain rules and regulations when they signed up to become a member. Rules and regulations which they also helped develop and then chose via a vote. It was their choice. And each club has chose to do it via the terms of their membership. It's no different to many other self-regulatory groups or voluntary bodies/codes of conduct which other industries decide sign up to.
      The test will come when teams, who have previously voted to agree to those regulations, blatantly flout them. There are supposed penalties involved which will benefit those who keep within the regulations.
      I'll believe that when I see it.
      Quote Originally Posted by brighton bluenose View Post
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      NSC at its very best ~ a post based on assumption on a matter the poster hasn't got a clue about!!
      The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members. Mahatma Gandhi
    • #9
      Members sparkie's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Herr Tubthumper View Post
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      But each FL club chose to adhere to certain rules and regulations when they signed up to become a member. Rules and regulations which they also helped develop and then chose via a vote. It was their choice. And each club has chosen FFP via the terms of their membership. It's no different to many other self-regulatory groups or voluntary bodies/codes of conduct which other industries decide sign up to.
      But I'm sure there wasn't 100% backing. It only takes 1 club, or interested body to take legal action. The conflict will come when a club is fined and doesn't want to pay !
    • #10
      Members Herr Tubthumper's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Thunder Bolt View Post
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      The test will come when teams, who have previously voted to agree to those regulations, blatantly flout them. There are supposed penalties involved which will benefit those who keep within the regulations.
      I'll believe that when I see it.
      I have faith in it. The FL has consistently and successfully managed to impose fines, transfer embargoes and points deductions on clubs for a variety of misdemeanors over the years. I recall there was the same idea that clubs could easily circumvent, or challenge via court, the points deduction for administration via holding companies. This has not proven to be the case. I don't see FFP being any different to this and I have faith the FL will deliver.
      "I will design a town in the image of your face. Round the wrinkles of your eyes my footsteps you can trace. We could promenade down infra-nasel depression. The streets of your hands will never feel a recession."

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