Firemans strike today - Retire at 55 or else...

nicko31 · Sep 25, 2013

Retirement at 60 is a dream for the rest of the population, but for some its a reason to strike.

60 isn't old these days. If you don't feel up to it at 55 anymore you can always get another job and see how the condition fair

vegster · Sep 25, 2013

You forget that firemen quite often have another job for when they are between shifts, which I believe is the reason for them having to retire early, poor devils.

Westdene Seagull · Sep 25, 2013

I challenge you to fight a fire or rescue someone once you hit 55+ ! It's not just about pensions, it's about the public's safety.

Questions · Sep 25, 2013

vegster said:
You forget that firemen quite often have another job for when they are between shifts, which I believe is the reason for them having to retire early, poor devils.

They are as bad as teachers for whinging.

Bakero · Sep 25, 2013

Questions said:
They are as bad as teachers for whinging.

You've got to be more subtle than that if you want to catch anything.

Bakero · Sep 25, 2013

nicko31 said:
Retirement at 60 is a dream for the rest of the population, but for some its a reason to strike.

60 isn't old these days. If you don't feel up to it at 55 anymore you can always get another job and see how the condition fair

60 is quite old to be running into burning buildings and rescuing people.

34064 Fighter Command · Sep 25, 2013

Oh dear here we go. Unfortunately the whole problem stems from the fitness tests that the firemen are expected to pass, that is the VO2 test which tests the ability of your body to pump oxygen around the bloodstream. Medical evidence suggests that in the general population at large, over 50's, and especially approaching 60, your VO2 test result would mean you would fail the fire brigades fitness test, and not be physically capable of serving as a fireman. Add in the exposure to severe heat, contaminated atmospheres, the need to carry heavy equipment or heavy people into or out of burning buildings, or to RTA sites, and there is a genuine medical arguement that suggests (like a serving soldier or a sportsperson), expecting a 55 yo to have the same fitness level as say a 35 yo is unrealistic. This is in addition to the evidence that extreme heat and smoke inhalation can exacerbate the risk of coronary heart disease. Firefighting is a stressful job, even at the peak of physical fitness and training.

http://www.fireservice.co.uk/fitness/why

C'mon, how many 55 yo pro footballers are there in the Championship?

Questions · Sep 25, 2013

Bakero said:
60 is quite old to be running into burning buildings and rescuing people.

Quite old to be going up ladders and re-pointing chimneys or cutting and pitching a large roof ?

Subtle enough ?

vegster · Sep 25, 2013

Questions said:
They are as bad as teachers for whinging.

I believe that painting and decorating is one of their favourite second jobs as obviously its not too demanding.

keaton · Sep 25, 2013

34064 Fighter Command said:
Oh dear here we go. Unfortunately the whole problem stems from the fitness tests that the firemen are expected to pass, that is the VO2 test which tests the ability of your body to pump oxygen around the bloodstream. Medical evidence suggests that in the general population at large, over 50's, and especially approaching 60, your VO2 test result would mean you would fail the fire brigades fitness test, and not be physically capable of serving as a fireman. Add in the exposure to severe heat, contaminated atmospheres, the need to carry heavy equipment or heavy people into or out of burning buildings, or to RTA sites, and there is a genuine medical arguement that suggests (like a serving soldier or a sportsperson), expecting a 55 yo to have the same fitness level as say a 35 yo is unrealistic. This is in addition to the evidence that extreme heat and smoke inhalation can exacerbate the risk of coronary heart disease.

C'mon, how many 55 yo pro footballers are there in the Championship?

But footballers don't have pensions paid by the public. If we use footballers as an example firefighters should just be expectd to survive off the money they made up until the age of 55.

34064 Fighter Command · Sep 25, 2013

Questions said:
Quite old to be going up ladders and re-pointing chimneys or cutting and pitching a large roof ?

Subtle enough ?

Yeah but if you were trapped in your car with petrol pouring over you, would you be concerned that the guy trying to cut you out is having to take a break every 10 minutes to catch his breath, or are you happy for him to light up and have a quick smoke........

Subtle enough ?

Bakero · Sep 25, 2013

Questions said:
Quite old to be going up ladders and re-pointing chimneys or cutting and pitching a large roof ?

Subtle enough ?

You could've caught a few with that one.

vegster · Sep 25, 2013

34064 Fighter Command said:
Yeah but if you were trapped in your car with petrol pouring over you, would you be concerned that the guy trying to cut you out is having to take a break every 10 minutes to catch his breath, or are you happy for him to light up and have a quick smoke........

Subtle enough ?

Yes, those pneumatic cutters are quite heavy and awkward, but they are still a bit quicker than a junior hacksaw.

34064 Fighter Command · Sep 25, 2013

keaton said:
But footballers don't have pensions paid by the public. If we use footballers as an example firefighters should just be expectd to survive off the money they made up until the age of 55.

Of course they're paid for by the public, where do you think your ticket price goes ffs, Tony Blooms back pocket

No, it goes into their wages, from which pension contributions and NI contributions are made. When they retire, they will draw the state pension, just like you, me or anybody else......

And after they've quit the game, any long term medical problems will be treated via NHS hospitals, paid for by just who, exactly?

BLOCK F · Sep 25, 2013

They have one of the best pensions in the public sector.Don't think they have much of a case,quite honestly.
Some of those who can no longer operate on the frontline will no doubt be offered other jobs in the service and many of the others will have to develop their second jobs into main jobs,aided by what is still a good pension by many peoples standards.

The Antikythera Mechanism · Sep 25, 2013

A firefighter who earns £29,000, and retires after a full career aged 60 will get a £19,000 a year pension, rising to £26,000 with the state pension

sten_super · Sep 25, 2013

BLOCK F said:
Some of those who can no longer operate on the frontline will no doubt be offered other jobs in the service

I don't think that firefighters can be expected to be fit enough to be frontline in their late 50s. I similarly don't think that teachers will be quick/robust enough in their mid-to-late 60s to teacher a class of teenagers. The solution in both cases is to put older members of staff in back office roles where they can bring their experience to bear and still provide a useful service. Unfortunately none of the government offices responsible for these departments are forward-thinking enough to work out what these roles might be, so they are unable to offer this when discussions take place between unions and departments. It's incredibly short-sighted.

Westdene Seagull · Sep 25, 2013

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
A firefighter who earns £29,000, and retires after a full career aged 60 will get a £19,000 a year pension, rising to £26,000 with the state pension

The pension is good but the pay is shockingly bad.

BLOCK F · Sep 25, 2013

The Antikythera Mechanism said:
A firefighter who earns £29,000, and retires after a full career aged 60 will get a £19,000 a year pension, rising to £26,000 with the state pension

Not quite the same in the private sector is it?
Anyone on £29k could only dream of a pension of £19k(and no doubt with increases every year) at the age of 60.
As I said,they have a good deal.

34064 Fighter Command · Sep 25, 2013

vegster said:
Yes, those pneumatic cutters are quite heavy and awkward, but they are still a bit quicker than a junior hacksaw.

A complete typical breathing apparatus set weighs 16kg, that's around two and a half stone in old money. ( And the cutters are hydraulic, not pneumatic fyi ).

That's similar to what a soldier would expect to have in his bergen whilst doing PTI (and that's a YOUNG soldier btw, not a 60 year old ).

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Firemans strike today - Retire at 55 or else...

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