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Homophobia issues in football



The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
We have a guest on this week's show, Louise Englefield, representing the organisation Football v Homophobia.

In order to get a snapshot of fans' view - specifically Brighton fans' views, seeing as we seem to be the target of this kind of thing - can I ask... to what extent do you think homophobia is an issue in modern-day professional football?

I know we've had long debates about whether certain 'boyfriend' chanting is banter or abuse - and it seems to be that it depends on where you draw your own personal line, so I don't really want to steer us down that path. However, I'd ask does this sort of thing bother you? Are punishments for offenders too lenient, too harsh or about right? Should it be deemed an offence?

I'm also thinking in terms of why more players haven't come out (I've no idea whether there are any homosexual or bi-sexual men playing professional football, but I would say the law of averages states there ought to be.) What would be stopping them coming out? Is there an issue at boardroom or bootroom level?

Or anything else you care to add along these lines. I just want to build up a picture of fellow fans' views to take into the show.

Cheers in advance.
 










Guinness Boy

Guinness Boy

Tofu eating wokerati
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patron
Jul 23, 2003
34,116
Up and Coming Sunny Portslade
An interesting question. To an extent you HAVE to talk about the chanting to put the other issues in to perspective.

Personally the chants don't offend me because I don't find being called gay offensive. I grew up in an era where, terrace chant wise, Northerners were all unemployed wife beaters, anyone with a slight burr was a tractor driving wurzel and scousers ate from bins and thieved. I don't think we actually thought ALL of them were like that and I can remember joining in. Where I didn't join in was with the monkey chants and banana throwing because I found them wrong morally both because I dislike racism AND because I thought they were bullying by targeting an individual.

So I don't think there are currently any footballers who have come out in this country and I suspect the first ones to will be the target of homophobic abuse individually unless by then it is understood to be completely unacceptable. Justin Fashanu was mercilessly targeted for example. By stopping the songs you reduce the risk of a player being targeted by fans when they come out. This is turn makes it more acceptable to the boot room and board room because there will not be a constant issue of the player being bullied by fans at away games.

I'm sure there would still be comments from team mates about not dropping the soap or kissing after a goal but to be honest if a player is brave enough to come out then he will be able to hold his own in banter and hopefully prove his worth on the pitch. The first ones to come out need to be really strong but if they survive the initial jibes then hopefully the atmosphere will normalise. Bring on the day when it is simply not an issue.

So to summarise I think there would be resentment currently from some players to an openly gay teammate and this in turn may stop managers / chairmen wanting to sign them. Stopping the chants we face isn't because of anyone particularly giving or taking offence - it's the first step to having a majority of fans think that homophobia is unacceptable and that itself is a building block to players coming out.
 






Albumen

Albumen

Don't wait for me!
Jan 19, 2010
11,495
Brighton - In your face
Davemania said:
Its hardly a major issue really.
Click to expand...

house your seagull said:
I wrote something and then deleted it, because the reality is that football fans understanding of homophobia is ****ing grim.

Ask her about how supporters groups/fanzines/etc are supposed to deal with the homophobia problem when coming up against the mitigation of 'banter'.
Click to expand...

And there we have it in a nutshell. There isn't a problem mainly because players have to hide it. We're miles away from equality in football. Miles.
 


S

soistes

Well-known member
Sep 12, 2012
2,643
Brighton
Clearly it's an issue, and at the risk of stating the blindingly obvious the reason it's different from chants about northerners or wurzels (but similar to racism), is the simple reason that northerners etc haven't been subject to systematic and pervasive discrimination in society as a whole (whereas ethnic minorities and, to a lesser but nevertheless real extent, gays, have).

The reason it's perhaps more problematic in football than in some other social contexts is perhaps twofold: first football matches are a context in which people feel able, under the cover of 'banter' to shout things that they wouldn't shout in normal life (much football banter of this kind would be a disciplinary or sacking offence in most workplaces, for example). Second, football matches are still a predominantly male environment, and I think there are some studies showing that, for whatever reason (repressed urges?) many traditional heterosexual men are more uncomfortable with homosexuality than women.

However, as with racism, it will (IMO) eventually become unacceptable, not least because social attitudes are changing -- as the latest British social attitudes survey shows, there has been a generational shift -- even if prejudiced individuals don't change their own views, most youngster are less homophobic than their elders and as they grow up and become the majority, the overall climate will change.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...exuality-is-biggest-change-in-generation.html
 






El Presidente

El Presidente

The ONLY Gay in Brighton
Helpful Moderator
Jul 5, 2003
39,704
Pattknull med Haksprut
Could you ask your guest whether she considers the attached photo to be homophobic in any form?

241_14321841355_8673_n.jpg

Homophobia is an issue to the extent that no player has come out to date. The reason behind this is it likely to be that he fears the reaction from colleagues/opponents and fans is likely to be hostile.

If you look at the way fans (including our own) have reacted mercilessly to players such as Marlon King and Lee Hughes who have been involved in crime related issues, it is certain that they would behave similarly initially to a gay player, unless the FA, PFA, match officials and stewards adopted a zero tolerance policy.

Given that the former captain of England and Manchester United can get away with using '******' on national radio, it would suggest that education on homophobia would need to start with the clubs, and there is no collective or individual will for that to happen.
 






B

BLOCK F

Well-known member
Feb 26, 2009
6,343
It is an issue in football,but I really have no idea how big an issue in the professional game.
Brighton fans apart,I don't suppose the average fan gives it much thought unless they happen to be either gay or feel particularly strongly about it.
 


father_and_son

father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
I have no issue with banter - "we can see you..." / "does your boyfriend..." - if anything I think it gives our fans something to rally around and the "you're too ugly..." response is the perfect retort.
Football would be a worse place without the benefit scrouging/ sheep shagging/ tractor loving -type banter that is based on common stereotypes giving the teams a unique "identity".

Anyone spouting vitriolic abuse referencing dying of AIDS or being graphic in front of children is unacceptable anywhere in or out of football.

I think we have the balance about right here at the moment.



As for the players issue. My understanding was that there are more than a few PL or FL players who were "out" in the dressing room and to the club but won't come out in front of the fans. This is where its very wrong. There will always be a few neanderthals on the pitch and off it who will make the "don't drop the soap" comments in the dressing room, but I think you get that in any walk of life (and its down to the club or the OB depending on where it happens). As to the expected "abuse from fans" that stops the players coming all the way out then I do think that we as a club are the perfect ones to break down a few barriers. BHA would be the club for a player to be at and come out completely because I think that they would receive the warmest welcome from both this city and our fans - I for one would clap a little bit louder what they came on or left the field out of respect for their actions.

Rainbow shoe laces? f**k off. complete waste of time and effort.
 


symyjym

symyjym

Banned
Nov 2, 2009
13,138
Brighton / Hove actually
I don't think this is specifically about football other than the terraces magnify social attitudes. People do get bullied at school from a young age for being gay even if they are not, and many take their own lives through all forms of bullying.

If you verbally abuse someone and you call them a derogatory disabled name, like the one people used to use for Cerebral Palsy, it is not only upsetting to the person constantly being called it at school or in the workplace, it is understandably highly offensive to the person who has it.

When abuse raises its head on the terraces in a very high profile sport, as it has done with racism, it becomes the responsibility of clubs and the FA to deal with it.

Personally I don't think it should be a duty for a football player or anyone to get up on the world stage, and define their sexuality, whether they are gay or straight as it really makes no difference to me.
 




Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
Ask if there are any lessons to be learned from women's football. Is it relevant that the issue is being raised in relation to the professional men's game? Or that the professional men's game attracts crowds of thousands, unlike women's football, which is watched mainly by smaller crowds (obviously not the major tournaments, but at weekly club level)?
 


The Large One

The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Lord Bracknell said:
Ask if there are any lessons to be learned from women's football. Is it relevant that the issue is being raised in relation to the professional men's game? Or that the professional men's game attracts crowds of thousands, unlike women's football, which is watched mainly by smaller crowds (obviously not the major tournaments, but at weekly club level)?
Click to expand...

Which 'lessons' did you have in mind?
 












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