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Free Speech V Police,CPS and Homophobic abuse toward us....interesting article



pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
apologies if has already been posted but i couldnt see it and it makes an interesting read anyway.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...ted_defence_of_free_speech/13972#.Ui1ThD_NmrN

The lack of protest against new guidelines clamping down on homophobic chants shows free speech only applies to the ‘right’ kind of people
First they came for the racists and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a racist. Then they came for the Old Firm sectarians and I didn’t speak out because wasn’t a sectarian. Then they came for the homophobes.

Pastor Martin Niemöller’s famous poem about the rise of the Nazis could just as easily apply to the lack of liberal opposition to the incremental erosion of freedom of expression at football. Initially, the authorities targeted racist chants. Next, it was the Old Firm war songs which were criminalised in Scotland. Now, the Etiquette Inquisition has turned its attentions to anti-gay chants. Last week, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) issued new guidelines warning fans that they would pursue a ‘robust prosecution policy’ against homophobic chanting.

Most right-minded, Guardian reading folk would quite rightly cry foul at the gagging of stand-up comedians or anti-Scientology protesters or Sam Brown, the Oxford student who called a police horse ‘gay’. Free speech is worth defending when it applies to ‘people like us’. We can all agree that section 5 of the Public Order Act, which outlaws ‘abusive or insulting words or behaviour’, is an affront to liberty. But so-called liberals are conspicuously absent when it comes to defending the right of white working-class men to sing abusive terrace songs. ‘What about racism?’ they say. ‘There have to be limits to free speech.’ This is what I would call the ‘free speech but…’ position. Free speech is fine. But not when it offends our liberal sensibilities.

The selective defence of free speech has allowed a steady erosion of the civil liberties of football supporters in Britain. ‘Racialist or indecent chanting’ at football is a criminal offence under section 3 of the Football Offences Act 1991. Where was the opposition to that piece of legislation? Where were the petitions and demonstrations when the law was passed? There weren’t any. Not a squeak of protest. In fact, the outlawing of racist chanting was warmly applauded by the ‘free speech but…’ brigade. As I’ve argued before on spiked, anti-racism today has become predominantly a demand for the observance of correct racial etiquette. We saw a similar ambivalence in Scotland to the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act 2012, which made sectarian chants at football a criminal offence punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment.

Now it’s the turn of fans who sing homophobic songs to face prosecution. We’ve all heard gay taunts at football. Brighton fans are regularly serenaded with choruses of ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here?’ or ‘We can see you holding hands’. During the Championship play-off semi-final, Crystal Palace fans chanted ‘Stand up, cos you can’t sit down’ and ‘Brighton take it up the bum’. It’s all pretty childish stuff. Unlike racist chanting, which is hostile and aimed at black players, gay chants are directed predominantly at heterosexual men. I doubt any Palace fans seriously believe that the majority of Brighton fans are gay. Brighton fans themselves don’t appear to be particularly offended by the playground taunts. In a poll on the North Stand Chat message board, 70 per cent of Albion fans said they weren’t bothered by the gay taunts. But, as far as the CPS is concerned, homophobic chanting, regardless of context, is a ‘hate crime’.

The ACPO/CPS guidance seeks to draw a distinction between banter and abuse: ‘We recognise, as do the overwhelming majority of decent fans, that there is a place for humour in football, but where the line between humour and offensive behaviour is crossed then positive action will be taken.’ But who decides where to draw the line? What constitutes offensive behaviour is inevitably subjective. Some people are offended by swearing or anti-religious jibes. Should these be banned too? Should we follow the recent example of Liverpool FC and outlaw phrases like ‘man up’ and ‘you play like a girl’ because they are sexist? It’s certainly in very poor taste to sing songs about the Munich air crash, but should this be a criminal offence, too? What about chants of ‘sheep shaggers’ aimed at the Welsh, or jibes such as ‘hubcap thieves’ and ‘granny stabbers’ directed at Scousers? Do these insults cross the decency threshold? Once you start to curb terrace jibes on the grounds that someone might be offended, it becomes extremely difficult to know where to draw the line.

When the homophobic chanters have been banned, who will the authorities come for next? Remember that the law prohibits chanting which is ‘indecent’ - a term capable of being widely interpreted. It’s pretty clear that the clampdown won’t stop with racism or homophobia. As Nick Hawkins, lead sports prosecutor at the CPS, puts it: ‘We’ve seen a welcome rise in recent years in the numbers of families attending football matches together as a result of friendlier atmospheres inside grounds, and that’s a trend that we’d all like to see continue.’ But if we make the matchday atmosphere ‘friendlier’, if we purge all offensive chanting, then we irreparably damage football. Why? Because insult, mockery and obscenity are as much a part of the matchday experience as the half-time pies. A football match has traditionally been a carnival of vulgarity. The stadium is a place where the social norms are temporarily relaxed; where singing and swearing is permitted, and where grown men are allowed to behave like kids for 90 minutes.

Some terrace songs are witty, some are cruel and tasteless, and some are extremely vile and offensive. If you don’t like what fans are singing, then you should take issue with them, confront them and have an argument. But don’t allow the authorities to ban football chants. We should defend the right of football fans to sing what they want. If you don’t speak out against the clampdown on abusive chants, not only will free speech suffer, but football itself will die.
 




Czechmate

Well-known member
Oct 5, 2011
1,212
Brno Czech Republic
apologies if has already been posted but i couldnt see it and it makes an interesting read anyway.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...ted_defence_of_free_speech/13972#.Ui1ThD_NmrN

The lack of protest against new guidelines clamping down on homophobic chants shows free speech only applies to the ‘right’ kind of people
First they came for the racists and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a racist. Then they came for the Old Firm sectarians and I didn’t speak out because wasn’t a sectarian. Then they came for the homophobes.

Pastor Martin Niemöller’s famous poem about the rise of the Nazis could just as easily apply to the lack of liberal opposition to the incremental erosion of freedom of expression at football. Initially, the authorities targeted racist chants. Next, it was the Old Firm war songs which were criminalised in Scotland. Now, the Etiquette Inquisition has turned its attentions to anti-gay chants. Last week, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) issued new guidelines warning fans that they would pursue a ‘robust prosecution policy’ against homophobic chanting.

Most right-minded, Guardian reading folk would quite rightly cry foul at the gagging of stand-up comedians or anti-Scientology protesters or Sam Brown, the Oxford student who called a police horse ‘gay’. Free speech is worth defending when it applies to ‘people like us’. We can all agree that section 5 of the Public Order Act, which outlaws ‘abusive or insulting words or behaviour’, is an affront to liberty. But so-called liberals are conspicuously absent when it comes to defending the right of white working-class men to sing abusive terrace songs. ‘What about racism?’ they say. ‘There have to be limits to free speech.’ This is what I would call the ‘free speech but…’ position. Free speech is fine. But not when it offends our liberal sensibilities.

The selective defence of free speech has allowed a steady erosion of the civil liberties of football supporters in Britain. ‘Racialist or indecent chanting’ at football is a criminal offence under section 3 of the Football Offences Act 1991. Where was the opposition to that piece of legislation? Where were the petitions and demonstrations when the law was passed? There weren’t any. Not a squeak of protest. In fact, the outlawing of racist chanting was warmly applauded by the ‘free speech but…’ brigade. As I’ve argued before on spiked, anti-racism today has become predominantly a demand for the observance of correct racial etiquette. We saw a similar ambivalence in Scotland to the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act 2012, which made sectarian chants at football a criminal offence punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment.

Now it’s the turn of fans who sing homophobic songs to face prosecution. We’ve all heard gay taunts at football. Brighton fans are regularly serenaded with choruses of ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here?’ or ‘We can see you holding hands’. During the Championship play-off semi-final, Crystal Palace fans chanted ‘Stand up, cos you can’t sit down’ and ‘Brighton take it up the bum’. It’s all pretty childish stuff. Unlike racist chanting, which is hostile and aimed at black players, gay chants are directed predominantly at heterosexual men. I doubt any Palace fans seriously believe that the majority of Brighton fans are gay. Brighton fans themselves don’t appear to be particularly offended by the playground taunts. In a poll on the North Stand Chat message board, 70 per cent of Albion fans said they weren’t bothered by the gay taunts. But, as far as the CPS is concerned, homophobic chanting, regardless of context, is a ‘hate crime’.

The ACPO/CPS guidance seeks to draw a distinction between banter and abuse: ‘We recognise, as do the overwhelming majority of decent fans, that there is a place for humour in football, but where the line between humour and offensive behaviour is crossed then positive action will be taken.’ But who decides where to draw the line? What constitutes offensive behaviour is inevitably subjective. Some people are offended by swearing or anti-religious jibes. Should these be banned too? Should we follow the recent example of Liverpool FC and outlaw phrases like ‘man up’ and ‘you play like a girl’ because they are sexist? It’s certainly in very poor taste to sing songs about the Munich air crash, but should this be a criminal offence, too? What about chants of ‘sheep shaggers’ aimed at the Welsh, or jibes such as ‘hubcap thieves’ and ‘granny stabbers’ directed at Scousers? Do these insults cross the decency threshold? Once you start to curb terrace jibes on the grounds that someone might be offended, it becomes extremely difficult to know where to draw the line.

When the homophobic chanters have been banned, who will the authorities come for next? Remember that the law prohibits chanting which is ‘indecent’ - a term capable of being widely interpreted. It’s pretty clear that the clampdown won’t stop with racism or homophobia. As Nick Hawkins, lead sports prosecutor at the CPS, puts it: ‘We’ve seen a welcome rise in recent years in the numbers of families attending football matches together as a result of friendlier atmospheres inside grounds, and that’s a trend that we’d all like to see continue.’ But if we make the matchday atmosphere ‘friendlier’, if we purge all offensive chanting, then we irreparably damage football. Why? Because insult, mockery and obscenity are as much a part of the matchday experience as the half-time pies. A football match has traditionally been a carnival of vulgarity. The stadium is a place where the social norms are temporarily relaxed; where singing and swearing is permitted, and where grown men are allowed to behave like kids for 90 minutes.

Some terrace songs are witty, some are cruel and tasteless, and some are extremely vile and offensive. If you don’t like what fans are singing, then you should take issue with them, confront them and have an argument. But don’t allow the authorities to ban football chants. We should defend the right of football fans to sing what they want. If you don’t speak out against the clampdown on abusive chants, not only will free speech suffer, but football itself will die.

My thoughts entirely :thumbsup:
 


ozseagull

New member
Jun 27, 2013
772
"The lack of protest against new guidelines clamping down on homophobic chants shows free speech only applies to the ‘right’ kind of people
First they came for the racists and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a racist. Then they came for the Old Firm sectarians and I didn’t speak out because wasn’t a sectarian. Then they came for the homophobes."

So you clarified your not a racist or sectarian.
Homophobic?
 


abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,034
To start with I thought this was sounding quite reasonable but as It went on it became obvious that the writer actually wants to retain football as a place that he can continue to be offensive when he wants in a way that he cannot be elsewhere in society. Football isn't different, it's made up of the same people that live outside of the 90 minutes.

If you want to argue that racism, homophobia, offensive language is ok then go for it but it can't be ok in one place and not another. Football matches are attended by families, children, elder citizens and simply ordinary people of all ages that do not want to hear or be subjected to foul language or, as someone pointed out on a different thread, have to explain to their child about AIDS at a sports match!
If football fans are so brilliant at humour (which many are) then they should (and often do) be able to achieve this without being offensive or abusive.

Society has long moved on and in fact football has with it. A minority of fans need to recognise this, get over it and create humorous banter on 'the terraces' that fits what is acceptable in today's society and to families and children. That might take new and true skills and humour but to be fair that's not something fans in the past have been short of.
 


Creaky

Well-known member
Mar 26, 2013
3,842
Hookwood - Nr Horley
apologies if has already been posted but i couldnt see it and it makes an interesting read anyway.

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsit...ted_defence_of_free_speech/13972#.Ui1ThD_NmrN

The lack of protest against new guidelines clamping down on homophobic chants shows free speech only applies to the ‘right’ kind of people
First they came for the racists and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a racist. Then they came for the Old Firm sectarians and I didn’t speak out because wasn’t a sectarian. Then they came for the homophobes.

Pastor Martin Niemöller’s famous poem about the rise of the Nazis could just as easily apply to the lack of liberal opposition to the incremental erosion of freedom of expression at football. Initially, the authorities targeted racist chants. Next, it was the Old Firm war songs which were criminalised in Scotland. Now, the Etiquette Inquisition has turned its attentions to anti-gay chants. Last week, the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) and the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) issued new guidelines warning fans that they would pursue a ‘robust prosecution policy’ against homophobic chanting.

Most right-minded, Guardian reading folk would quite rightly cry foul at the gagging of stand-up comedians or anti-Scientology protesters or Sam Brown, the Oxford student who called a police horse ‘gay’. Free speech is worth defending when it applies to ‘people like us’. We can all agree that section 5 of the Public Order Act, which outlaws ‘abusive or insulting words or behaviour’, is an affront to liberty. But so-called liberals are conspicuously absent when it comes to defending the right of white working-class men to sing abusive terrace songs. ‘What about racism?’ they say. ‘There have to be limits to free speech.’ This is what I would call the ‘free speech but…’ position. Free speech is fine. But not when it offends our liberal sensibilities.

The selective defence of free speech has allowed a steady erosion of the civil liberties of football supporters in Britain. ‘Racialist or indecent chanting’ at football is a criminal offence under section 3 of the Football Offences Act 1991. Where was the opposition to that piece of legislation? Where were the petitions and demonstrations when the law was passed? There weren’t any. Not a squeak of protest. In fact, the outlawing of racist chanting was warmly applauded by the ‘free speech but…’ brigade. As I’ve argued before on spiked, anti-racism today has become predominantly a demand for the observance of correct racial etiquette. We saw a similar ambivalence in Scotland to the Offensive Behaviour at Football and Threatening Communications Act 2012, which made sectarian chants at football a criminal offence punishable by up to five years’ imprisonment.

Now it’s the turn of fans who sing homophobic songs to face prosecution. We’ve all heard gay taunts at football. Brighton fans are regularly serenaded with choruses of ‘Does your boyfriend know you’re here?’ or ‘We can see you holding hands’. During the Championship play-off semi-final, Crystal Palace fans chanted ‘Stand up, cos you can’t sit down’ and ‘Brighton take it up the bum’. It’s all pretty childish stuff. Unlike racist chanting, which is hostile and aimed at black players, gay chants are directed predominantly at heterosexual men. I doubt any Palace fans seriously believe that the majority of Brighton fans are gay. Brighton fans themselves don’t appear to be particularly offended by the playground taunts. In a poll on the North Stand Chat message board, 70 per cent of Albion fans said they weren’t bothered by the gay taunts. But, as far as the CPS is concerned, homophobic chanting, regardless of context, is a ‘hate crime’.

The ACPO/CPS guidance seeks to draw a distinction between banter and abuse: ‘We recognise, as do the overwhelming majority of decent fans, that there is a place for humour in football, but where the line between humour and offensive behaviour is crossed then positive action will be taken.’ But who decides where to draw the line? What constitutes offensive behaviour is inevitably subjective. Some people are offended by swearing or anti-religious jibes. Should these be banned too? Should we follow the recent example of Liverpool FC and outlaw phrases like ‘man up’ and ‘you play like a girl’ because they are sexist? It’s certainly in very poor taste to sing songs about the Munich air crash, but should this be a criminal offence, too? What about chants of ‘sheep shaggers’ aimed at the Welsh, or jibes such as ‘hubcap thieves’ and ‘granny stabbers’ directed at Scousers? Do these insults cross the decency threshold? Once you start to curb terrace jibes on the grounds that someone might be offended, it becomes extremely difficult to know where to draw the line.

When the homophobic chanters have been banned, who will the authorities come for next? Remember that the law prohibits chanting which is ‘indecent’ - a term capable of being widely interpreted. It’s pretty clear that the clampdown won’t stop with racism or homophobia. As Nick Hawkins, lead sports prosecutor at the CPS, puts it: ‘We’ve seen a welcome rise in recent years in the numbers of families attending football matches together as a result of friendlier atmospheres inside grounds, and that’s a trend that we’d all like to see continue.’ But if we make the matchday atmosphere ‘friendlier’, if we purge all offensive chanting, then we irreparably damage football. Why? Because insult, mockery and obscenity are as much a part of the matchday experience as the half-time pies. A football match has traditionally been a carnival of vulgarity. The stadium is a place where the social norms are temporarily relaxed; where singing and swearing is permitted, and where grown men are allowed to behave like kids for 90 minutes.

Some terrace songs are witty, some are cruel and tasteless, and some are extremely vile and offensive. If you don’t like what fans are singing, then you should take issue with them, confront them and have an argument. But don’t allow the authorities to ban football chants. We should defend the right of football fans to sing what they want. If you don’t speak out against the clampdown on abusive chants, not only will free speech suffer, but football itself will die.

There is so much innately wrong with that blog it would take an essay to dissect it and point out the errors. Better just to look at at one viewpoint that the author appears to have taken as a given. This is demonstrated by the following quotes from the blog.

". . . if we purge all offensive chanting, then we irreparably damage football . . ."
". . . insult, mockery and obscenity are as much a part of the matchday experience as the half-time pies"
"The stadium is a place where the social norms are temporarily relaxed . . ."
". . . not only will free speech suffer, but football itself will die"

There are no facts to back up any of those statements, in fact the reverse is the case - attendances have risen since the 80s and continue to rise year on year, as does the income from the secondary fan base via television and other media. Yet during the same period tolerance of the type of behaviour that the author of the blog describes as "part of the match day experience" has declined rapidly.

As the basic premise of the blog can be shown to be false then it has no credibility.
 




maglers

Active member
Apr 26, 2011
343
"Some terrace songs are witty, some are cruel and tasteless, and some are extremely vile and offensive. If you don’t like what fans are singing, then you should take issue with them, confront them and have an argument."

And what do you do when these fans tell you to f*** off and smack you in the mouth?
 


father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
To start with I thought this was sounding quite reasonable but as It went on it became obvious that the writer actually wants to retain football as a place that he can continue to be offensive when he wants in a way that he cannot be elsewhere in society. Football isn't different, it's made up of the same people that live outside of the 90 minutes.

If you want to argue that racism, homophobia, offensive language is ok then go for it but it can't be ok in one place and not another. Football matches are attended by families, children, elder citizens and simply ordinary people of all ages that do not want to hear or be subjected to foul language or, as someone pointed out on a different thread, have to explain to their child about AIDS at a sports match!
If football fans are so brilliant at humour (which many are) then they should (and often do) be able to achieve this without being offensive or abusive.

Society has long moved on and in fact football has with it. A minority of fans need to recognise this, get over it and create humorous banter on 'the terraces' that fits what is acceptable in today's society and to families and children. That might take new and true skills and humour but to be fair that's not something fans in the past have been short of.

This 100%. The article was clearly written by a neanderthal, living in the 70s, harking back to a time when football was watched exclusively by white, working class men who wanted to abuse and, often, fight the opposition because they dared to support the other side.
 


Gullflyinghigh

Registered User
Apr 23, 2012
4,279
If you don’t speak out against the clampdown on abusive chants, not only will free speech suffer, but football itself will die.

So, to clarify, if people are no longer allowed to hurl abuse from the stands for 90 minutes then the game will get worse? What weird logic is that?

Surely this was written tongue in cheek though...surely...
 






Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
The fact that (allegedly) 70% of an NSC poll weren't offended doesn't mean it is acceptable. I'm not "offended" by the chants, because I regard them as juvenile and pathetic, but that doesn't mean I am in favour of them (I'm not).

Much of the attempts to justify his position are based on flawed and false premises. Removing an unpleasant and threatening atmosphere will enhance, not damage, the match experience. He might as well be approving of urinating in public - which also used to be a feature of some matchday experiences on terraces, but did not enhance anybody else's experience.

Freedom of speech does not mean you can anyone and everyone insulting and abusive names simply because you want to. There remains such a thing as manners and politeness - even in football.

It's a rather sad attempt at shock jock writing to provoke a reaction.
 






essexeagle

Active member
Jul 22, 2004
474
The guy is talking pure, plain and simple common sense. Ignore the Palace/Brighton thing but don't you all think we live in a nanny state where everything is deemed wrong or offensive to somebody or other? Our great country has lost it's way completely over the last 30 years. :(
 


The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
The guy is talking pure, plain and simple common sense. Ignore the Palace/Brighton thing but don't you all think we live in a nanny state where everything is deemed wrong or offensive to somebody or other? Our great country has lost it's way completely over the last 30 years. :(

Nope. We don't live in a 'nanny state' - there's no such thing. It's a mythical creation borne of lazy journalism.

Not that we were talking about 'everything' - we were rounding on homophobia here - but can you define your version of 'everything' by which you believe people are offended?

Our great country has lost it's way completely over the last 30 years. :(

Completely and utterly irrelevant to the point being made.
 


father_and_son

Well-known member
Jan 23, 2012
4,646
Under the Police Box
The guy is talking pure, plain and simple common sense. Ignore the Palace/Brighton thing but don't you all think we live in a nanny state where everything is deemed wrong or offensive to somebody or other? Our great country has lost it's way completely over the last 30 years. :(

I think we are sleep walking into a 1984-esque big brother society where apathy rules all, but that doesn't mean that stopping people making hurtful or insulting comments [or actions] in public isn't a bad thing. Racism, Sexism, Homophobia - I'd be glad to see the back of all of them, along with CCTV camera's, government snooping and excessive powers in the hands of the unaccountable, but No... this isn't common sense. What the article says is categorically wrong, as shown by all the evidence available.

If you hate Black people, Gay people, Women, whoever, that is your prerogative, if you express that hatred in public, you shame both yourself and everyone else who says/does nothing.
 




Gullflyinghigh

Registered User
Apr 23, 2012
4,279
The guy is talking pure, plain and simple common sense. Ignore the Palace/Brighton thing but don't you all think we live in a nanny state where everything is deemed wrong or offensive to somebody or other? Our great country has lost it's way completely over the last 30 years. :(

Oh go on then, I'll bite, why do we now live in a nanny state?

I know there's a chance of frothy mouthed/conspiracy laden responses and, in the interest of forewarning, I'm just going to ignore them as I'm happy to have a discussion but not a never-ending argument.
 


Tooting Gull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
11,033
This piece reads like someone who is privately very homophobic but clever enough not to say it, and wrapping the arguments up in other stuff.

What people don't understand is what I and other Brighton fans have seen. I am not bothered about the songs, and as this guy says ironically most of the people it is being sung at - statistically - are probably straight, so it less discrimination and more stupidity.

But I have seen many times incredibly angry, abusive, drunk opposition fans screaming 'You f*****g HIV f****t c***s' at fans with wives and young children outside grounds and at stations. I have no problem with such types being banned, fined or locked up. At the risk of doing an #AccidentalPartridge, 'These people are scum'.

If you have to deal with harmless songs to eradicate the more serious side to it, then that is an unfortunate price worth paying, but you would have had to be in the position I describe above to realise that.
 


essexeagle

Active member
Jul 22, 2004
474
Oh go on then, I'll bite, why do we now live in a nanny state?

I know there's a chance of frothy mouthed/conspiracy laden responses and, in the interest of forewarning, I'm just going to ignore them as I'm happy to have a discussion but not a never-ending argument.

Well we just do. Over the top health and safety laws, cctv everywhere you go, speed cameras, you can't say anything for fear of upsetting one minority or another..ad infinitum..And now we are being told what we can and can't sing at football matches. Look, I'm not talking about racism here or homophobia or anything per se..i'm just saying that there are controls on this, controls on that..where will it stop? For the record, I would never sing a rasict chant, or join in if some moron started singing about a disabled person or anything like that but there is surely some room for some humour in football.
 


The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
Well we just do. Over the top health and safety laws, cctv everywhere you go, speed cameras, you can't say anything for fear of upsetting one minority or another..ad infinitum..And now we are being told what we can and can't sing at football matches. Look, I'm not talking about racism here or homophobia or anything per se..i'm just saying that there are controls on this, controls on that..where will it stop? For the record, I would never sing a rasict chant, or join in if some moron started singing about a disabled person or anything like that but there is surely some room for some humour in football.

So you're basically whining that you can't be offensive any more in case it upsets someone?
 




Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,688
This piece reads like someone who is privately very homophobic but clever enough not to say it, and wrapping the arguments up in other stuff.

What people don't understand is what I and other Brighton fans have seen. I am not bothered about the songs, and as this guy says ironically most of the people it is being sung at - statistically - are probably straight, so it less discrimination and more stupidity.

But I have seen many times incredibly angry, abusive, drunk opposition fans screaming 'You f*****g HIV f****t c***s' at fans with wives and young children outside grounds and at stations. I have no problem with such types being banned, fined or locked up. At the risk of doing an #AccidentalPartridge, 'These people are scum'.

If you have to deal with harmless songs to eradicate the more serious side to it, then that is an unfortunate price worth paying, but you would have had to be in the position I describe above to realise that.

Absolutely agree, and it is the extreme language that you mention that people are getting nicked for, not the cartoonish banter.
 


essexeagle

Active member
Jul 22, 2004
474
So you're basically whining that you can't be offensive any more in case it upsets someone?

Well no, not really. I don't think there is any room for anyone to be offensive....however there are surely times that a level of mocking can be seen and taken as being just that..light hearted banter. Why does eveyone have to be so precious? Let's be clear, there is no room for the outrageous disgusting abuse shouted like that quoted by someone above about HIV etc especially in front of kids but where does it stop? An example was last year away at Birmingham..there was this right chavvy bloke in tracksuit and cap and all the gear. ''Tracksuit from Matalan'' went the chant. His girlfriend went ballistic...''Girlfriend from Matalan'' followed. She went even more ballistic. Now it was one of those moments when you probably had to be there but it was so funny. But that is terrace humour. But yet it was directed at two individuals. If that was racist abuse at two individuals then it's wrong..but some abuse can be right! (if you see what I mean)
There is no room for hateful abuse, beit racist, homophobic or whatever. But there is a fine line between what is abuse and what is banter. Chants such as stand up if you can't sit down, does your boyfriend etc are banter rather than hateful abuse in my opinion.
 


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