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Councils should ditch anti car dogma







The Spanish

The Spanish

Well-known member
Aug 12, 2008
6,477
P
one of the hilliest towns in Britain as well. you couldnt make it up. as much as they wish brighton was copenhagen its never going to be.
 


CheeseRolls

CheeseRolls

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 27, 2009
5,951
Shoreham Beach
Seems like more hot air from Pickles the king of flatulence. Much as I detest speed bumps and excessive parking charges, what we have here is a new set of guidelines, which amounts to sod all really.
 


D

Dandyman

In London village.
Jul 7, 2003
7,949
London, United Kingdom, United Kingdom
CheeseRolls said:
Seems like more hot air from Pickles the king of flatulence. Much as I detest speed bumps and excessive parking charges, what we have here is a new set of guidelines, which amounts to sod all really.
Click to expand...

Probably easier for Pickles that doing anything about excessive rants, proper planning regulation or the stranglehold of the supermarkets over the High Street.
 


W

Working class pride

Banned
Feb 14, 2010
4,932
It is noteworthy that the cheapest place to park in Brighton & Hove is opposite the Council offices at Hove Town Hall. About £4 a day where as it is about that an hour for the rest of Brighton. To borrow and adapt a line from Animal Farm, "All cars are equal, but some cars are more equal than others".
 




spring hall convert

spring hall convert

Well-known member
Nov 3, 2009
9,608
Brighton
"Draconian" parking policies and "over-zealous traffic wardens" had driven motorists into internet retailers and out-of-town stores, Eric Pickles said.

Clearly b**locks. I'm sure the parking doesn't help but I think convenience, choice & price are the things people are most looking at when using the internet and out of town shopping centres. The high street needs to adapt its offering to survive as out of town and internet retailing are better options for the majority of people. This particular horse bolted a long time ago, which goes to show just how out of touch Mr. Pickles is.

How is Mr Pickles suggesting local Government makes up the shortfall in cash whilst their budgets are being slashed as well?
 




Publius Ovidius

Publius Ovidius

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
46,019
at home
Convenience....that is why people use their cars in towns.

Take brighton...there is no point in going into central brighton to do your grocery shopping....apart from waitrose and that is far enough away from the centre....so your shopping is therefore for clothes, shoes, that sort of thing. From mile oak, it takes a good hour to get into town on the bus and is not the most pleasant of experiences, therefore people drive. You have your own space and can load your car without hassling other passengers!

As much as people advocate getting people out of their cars and into busses, our mindset is to use the car and unfortunately that will stay. I can only see that changing if we have a public transport system that is free or at least dirt cheap, but as all the money was spent propping up and bailing out the idiocies of the financial system and their willingness to lend money to people who had no way to pay it back, that option is no longer the, therefore public transport will always be an expensive and inconvenient option.

The DDR had it right.
 




Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
granny weatherwax said:
Convenience....that is why people use their cars in towns.

Take brighton...there is no point in going into central brighton to do your grocery shopping....apart from waitrose and that is far enough away from the centre....so your shopping is therefore for clothes, shoes, that sort of thing. From mile oak, it takes a good hour to get into town on the bus and is not the most pleasant of experiences, therefore people drive. You have your own space and can load your car without hassling other passengers!

As much as people advocate getting people out of their cars and into busses, our mindset is to use the car and unfortunately that will stay. I can only see that changing if we have a public transport system that is free or at least dirt cheap, but as all the money was spent propping up and bailing out the idiocies of the financial system and their willingness to lend money to people who had no way to pay it back, that option is no longer the, therefore public transport will always be an expensive and inconvenient option.

The DDR had it right.
Click to expand...
But ... unlike other UK towns and cities (other than London), bus use in Brighton has doubled in recent years. They must be doing something right.

http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/content/press-release/bus-patronage-doubles
 




Lord Bracknell

Lord Bracknell

On fire
Jul 5, 2003
39,499
104 Upper Grosvenor Street, Mayfair
yxee said:
Why is bus usage a measure of the success of a council?
Click to expand...
In itself, it isn't. The point that is made - by the bus companies (and, as the manager of one of the eight companies running local bus services in the city, I would agree wholeheartedly) - is that the partnership working that is facilitated by all of the partners, including (most importantly) the council, is what has made the difference to numbers travelling by bus in Brighton & Hove.

Towns and cities that have simply left bus companies to compete with each other for passengers have seen numbers drop and service quality stagnate.

Brighton and Hove's increase in bus passenger numbers has certainly been a major factor in attracting government funding for further improvements (such as better bus stop facilities, quicker and more reliable journey times - thanks to bus lanes - new hybrid-powered buses, 100 per cent of buses being accessible to disabled people and parents with baby buggies much earlier than the deadline for this being compulsory) etc - all listed in the council's press release.


Incidentally, as a contributor of some of the data that goes into the statistics quoted, I can vouch for the accuracy and robustness of the methods used to measure bus use in the city. And I'm normally a born-again cynic when it comes to public sector "performance indicators".
 
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Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,522
The Fatherland
granny weatherwax said:
Convenience....that is why people use their cars in towns.

Take brighton...there is no point in going into central brighton to do your grocery shopping....apart from waitrose and that is far enough away from the centre....so your shopping is therefore for clothes, shoes, that sort of thing. From mile oak, it takes a good hour to get into town on the bus and is not the most pleasant of experiences, therefore people drive. You have your own space and can load your car without hassling other passengers!

As much as people advocate getting people out of their cars and into busses, our mindset is to use the car and unfortunately that will stay. I can only see that changing if we have a public transport system that is free or at least dirt cheap, but as all the money was spent propping up and bailing out the idiocies of the financial system and their willingness to lend money to people who had no way to pay it back, that option is no longer the, therefore public transport will always be an expensive and inconvenient option.

The DDR had it right.
Click to expand...

Now you're talking. Honecker knew what the people wanted.
 


Thunder Bolt

Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
Aug 18, 2009
65,454
Beside the seaside, beside the sea
Lord Bracknell said:
What puts me off town centre shopping? Traffic congestion, that's what.
Click to expand...

It would help if the traffic lights sequences were sorted out. It can take a bus nearly 10 minutes to get from North Street up to Brighton station due to numerous traffic lights.
 




D

dougdeep

New member
May 9, 2004
37,732
SUNNY SEAFORD
Thunder Bolt said:
It would help if the traffic lights sequences were sorted out. It can take a bus nearly 10 minutes to get from North Street up to Brighton station due to numerous traffic lights.
Click to expand...

Well said sir. It's the same all over the country though, just a few alterations to lights and the addition of a few filter arrows could save hundreds of hours per day.
 


Southover Street Seagull

Southover Street Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
3,318
New York Maximum Security Penitentiary Manhattan I


Southover Street Seagull

Southover Street Seagull

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
3,318
New York Maximum Security Penitentiary Manhattan I
Lord Bracknell said:
In itself, it isn't. The point that is made - by the bus companies (and, as the manager of one of the eight companies running local bus services in the city, I would agree wholeheartedly) - is that the partnership working that is facilitated by all of the partners, including (most importantly) the council, is what has made the difference to numbers travelling by bus in Brighton & Hove.

Towns and cities that have simply left bus companies to compete with each other for passengers have seen numbers drop and service quality stagnate.

Brighton and Hove's increase in bus passenger numbers has certainly been a major factor in attracting government funding for further improvements (such as better bus stop facilities, quicker and more reliable journey times - thanks to bus lanes - new hybrid-powered buses, 100 per cent of buses being accessible to disabled people and parents with baby buggies much earlier than the deadline for this being compulsory) etc - all listed in the council's press release.


Incidentally, as a contributor of some of the data that goes into the statistics quoted, I can vouch for the accuracy and robustness of the methods used to measure bus use in the city. And I'm normally a born-again cynic when it comes to public sector "performance indicators".
Click to expand...

Here are some statistics to enhance this particular debate about car use in town centres M'Lord:

http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/media/30-07-2013-nts-2012

http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/files/CfBT_NTS_2012_new_data_FINAL.pdf
 


LargeHadronZugzwang

LargeHadronZugzwang

Active member
Feb 27, 2013
394
Restaurant at the end of the Universe
They should do what they did in Doncaster and what they are doing in The Netherlands regardless and pedestrianise town Centres even more. Where is the car going to be in 10+ or 20 years? Very few people will be able to afford what goes into them. If the Chinese are making 25 million cars in the next 5 years, who will be getting this diminishing pie? Comfortable privacy is all very well, but there is absolutely no way countries will be consuming what they do in oil in the decades ahead, even if they frack the whole Sussex Weald. The best policy as has been stated, is to improve public transport in a coordinated fashion to stop competition lowering the standards. If half the plastic in electric cars is made from oil, where is this resource going to come from in the future? - Never mind any lithium. There is simply no way the motorcar can survive as a form of mass transport in the decades to come, however much people like them. Getting up hills without motorised wheels is good exercise.
 




Garage_Doors

Garage_Doors

Originally the Swankers
Jun 28, 2008
11,789
Brighton
Ditch 'anti-car dogma' and boost parking, councils told.

Whats the chance of Brighton's listening?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23837610


Councils in England should provide more parking spaces in town centres and cut down on speed humps, the secretary of state for communities has said.

New planning guidance will also say councils should ensure parking charges do not "undermine" local economies.

"Draconian" parking policies and "over-zealous traffic wardens" had driven motorists into internet retailers and out-of-town stores, Eric Pickles said.

Councils said such intervention made it harder for them to meet local needs.

The guidance, which is due to be published this week, says: "The quality of parking in town centres is important; it should be convenient, safe and secure.

"Parking charges should be appropriate and not undermine the vitality of town centres and local shops, and parking enforcement should be proportionate."

It urges councils to ensure that street furniture including lighting, railings, litter bins, paving and fountains are "well designed and sensitively placed".

"Unnecessary clutter and physical constraints such as parking bollards and road humps should be avoided," it adds.

'Economic damage'
"Draconian Town Hall parking policies and street clutter can make driving into town centres unnecessarily stressful and actually create more congestion because of lack of places to park,

Creating more spaces in town and city centres where there is no room for them is simply not the way to draw more shoppers”

Local Government Association
"Anti-car measures are driving motorists into the arms of internet retailers and out of town superstores, taking their custom with them.

"Over-zealous parking wardens have inflicted real damage on local economies and given many towns and councils a bad name.

"Town Halls need to ditch their anti-car dogma. Making it easier to park will help support local shops, local jobs and tourism."

But a spokesman for the Local Government Association, which represents more than 370 councils in England and Wales, said: "Councils work hard to try and boost trade and keep High Streets vibrant through parking incentives such as free short-stay, cheaper evenings and free Sundays.

"Creating more spaces in town and city centres where there is no room for them is simply not the way to draw more shoppers to the High Street.

"Parking measures help avoid congestion in our high streets.

"In fact, the government's own figures show charges in England are falling in real terms while councils invest any revenue back into transport services like filling potholes and road improvement projects.

"The more government continues to intervene in this way, the less flexibility local authorities have to react to the individual needs of local shoppers, residents and traders and support local businesses and High Streets in their area."

The government says the new guidance is part of an online guide that replaces 7,000 pages of previous "planning practice guidance" documents, and also part of a wider initiative to support parking and local shoppers.
 




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