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2013/14, Garcia & Poyet - Questions



BrightonSkyBlue

New member
Aug 5, 2013
4
Greetings all, Brightonian Coventry fan in peace here.

I am writing an article on the Albion at the moment, and wondered if some you would mind giving your views? General thoughts on the following would be much appreciated:

Are you optimistic going into the new season?
Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?


Thanks in advance, and best of luck for the coming season. You're my 2nd team and I'll be supporting you on Saturdays when my own team is playing its exiled games in Northampton!
 


Goldstone Rapper

Rediffusion PlayerofYear
Jan 19, 2009
14,865
BN3 7DE
Weird coincidence. I'm currently writing a article about Coventry City, actually.

(About the early 1970s, mind you).

With your questions, it is too early to say, as it's the start of the season and there is not enough known about the case, such as why Poyet was charged with gross misconduct.
 


strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,965
Barnsley
Are you optimistic going into the new season?
Yes - it will be interesting to see how Oscar evolves Poyet's style. Already we seem to be far more attacking.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
Unfortunately, it is impossible to say because we don't know why he was sacked. All we know is that it was both 'breach of contract' and 'gross misconduct'.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
See your below question - it is possibly going to court. Also, because it is a sacking, which is unusual in football (usually managers are paid off). If you were sacked, you wouldn't want your employer telling everyone why.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
Difficult to say without knowing the facts.

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
I hope so - early signs are good, in spite of the loss at the weekend. He talks a good game and has a good pedegree (having worked at Barca under Pep Guardiola).

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
I think it already has - especially with Gus claiming to have been sacked on live TV.

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?
I recon so, although a repeat of last season's fourth place may be a tall order this season.
 


Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,093
Bexhill-on-Sea
Are you optimistic going into the new season? YesWere BHAFC right to sack Poyet? He was obviously desparate to leave two months before the end of the season
Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal? Impending possible legal case
Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy? His decision, his actions have already tainted his accommplishments, does he normally make the right decisions, ie Saurez
Is Garcia a worthy replacement? Absolutely
Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR? For maybe a short while but in the long term, no
Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years? The king is dead, long live the king, no I don't think so
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,898
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Are you optimistic going into the new season?

To a point, why not. I don't think we'll do as well as last year, I think we'll be slap bang in the middle of the table - which would of course be a fantastic result for Brighton historically and not a bad result considering we've changed manager in the off-season and its all unknown now. Bearing in mind my comments below, I am positive because I have faith in the excellent team Gus put together.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?

In my opinion, absolutely not. I think they should have kept differences behind closed doors and worked something out for the good of the footballing side of the club, but failing that, if Bloom and Poyet's relationship couldn't have been salvaged, it should have been an amicable departure by mutual agreement. But sacked, no, not at all, the fallout is still going on and threatens to damage both Gus and the club's reputation, not to mention Oscar's chances at a smooth transition and ultimately the success of this season.

Many on here will gleefully tell you the club was right to sack him. Its causing divisions.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?

He is releasing small snippets in an attempt to win the PR battle. But aside from that, some think its because the charges are trumped up, others that the club are doing everything by the book and being professional. It is interesting that one person's source says that gross misconduct is fully justifed, whilst another person's source says that the charges are petty, suggesting the divisions go right to the top.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?

Who knows. His legacy is already tainted. We hope the truth will out, which means a court case, but equally it could wreck this season. No one really knows what the players are thinking, but many will surely be very loyal to Gus.

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?

Maybe. He clearly has a football pedigree, but his coaching pedigree is sketchy at best. He has managed before which is more than Gus had when he came here, but he obviously doesn't know the English leagues unlike Gus. The whole backroom staff has changed, down to fitness coach, youth coach, keepers coach and so on, so its certainly a new broom. Gus was a gamble which massively worked out, and if pressed I would suggest Oscar is a gamble that will also succeed.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?

Obviously, blinkered if think otherwise. Does it matter?, well that's another question

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?

Yes. In 2014-15.
 




drew

Drew
Oct 3, 2006
23,008
Burgess Hill
Greetings all, Brightonian Coventry fan in peace here.

I am writing an article on the Albion at the moment, and wondered if some you would mind giving your views? General thoughts on the following would be much appreciated:

Are you optimistic going into the new season?
After the last two years I expect us to be in the play-off mix again at the very least.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
If he rang Bloom and said he would leave the next day and if he refused to deal with the retain list and if he told the players he was going before he told the chairman and possibly other reasons yet to come out then yes.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
Because it is an internal employment issue. Fans have no right to know, it is only curiosity that would be satisfied if details were released. Also, how would releasing info help any negotiations between the two parties?

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
It's his prerogative but whether it is a wise move will depend what actually happened, which may of course come out, and whether he gets another job? Alan Curbishley took WHU to court (and won) but hasn't had a managerial job since!

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
He certainly has the playing pedigree but, like Poyet before him, is a gamble, one I'm pleased the club have taken.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
Not really. There might be a few fans who demand to know more and some members of the media that try and make a mountain out of a molehill but that is probably been because this was an unusual case whereby the club followed their own procedures rather than the norm and just sack the manager. I think there is an underlying admiration for the way the club have gone about this. The information lockdown on the side of the club has also meant that Poyet hasn't really been given the opportunity to go into detail which has meant their hasn't been an unsavoury tit for tat spat aired in the media.

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?
Without a doubt.

Thanks in advance, and best of luck for the coming season. You're my 2nd team and I'll be supporting you on Saturdays when my own team is playing its exiled games in Northampton!

Hope this helps.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?

In my opinion, absolutely not..


Is this any different to those saying he absolutely should have been sacked?? Without having anywhere near the full information from either side I would say the question is impossible to answer. The fact that you say no and others say yes is a case of people taking sides without a clue as to what actually happened to make it end like this. A few drips here and there from both sides but nothing at all that enables us to answer that question...obviously imo :smile:

From previous discussions you will know I was less than impressed with some of Gus press statements but should he have been sacked? I really have no idea although I will back what TB and the board decide as we need to move on.
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
46,487
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Greetings all, Brightonian Coventry fan in peace here.

I am writing an article on the Albion at the moment, and wondered if some you would mind giving your views? General thoughts on the following would be much appreciated:

Are you optimistic going into the new season?
Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?


Thanks in advance, and best of luck for the coming season. You're my 2nd team and I'll be supporting you on Saturdays when my own team is playing its exiled games in Northampton!

You will get a mixture of fact (little is actually know re sacking), opinion based on what people think about poyet and speculation best of luck with your article
 




dougdeep

New member
May 9, 2004
37,732
SUNNY SEAFORD
Erm? Can you come back in May?
 


Bold Seagull

strong and stable with me, or...
Mar 18, 2010
29,719
Hove
Are you optimistic going into the new season?
Yes, we still have a good core team. It will be hard for Oscar though, so I would be chuffed to bits to make the play-offs - that would be a great achievement in his first season as manager.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
Not sure anyone outside the club really knows, but we have to trust our chairmans judgement, so yes.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
Presumably because he is expecting a legal challenge and any disclosure might effect our own case.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
It might well be worth a 6 figure settlement to him. I don't begrudge him the right to challenge his dismissal. It doesn't effect my view of how well he did here.

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
Time will tell, but there is a buzz of excitement about him. We need to add some positive flair to our play, so perhaps he is the man to do it. Time will tell.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
No not really. It's football. People are talking about Brighton, from people I speak to, they certainly see Brighton's point of view after the things Poyet said in the press.

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?
As said above, it will be a challenge to reach top 6 again. The new manager needs time to settle in, and the league is arguably tougher this year. 6th would be a fantastic season for me.
 


wolfie

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2003
1,658
Warwickshire
As a Brighton fan living near Coventry, i think you need to worry a lot more about your own club - what is going on there is not much worse than what happened to us 16-17 years ago
 




Albion in the north

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2012
1,507
Ooop North
Is this any different to those saying he absolutely should have been sacked?? Without having anywhere near the full information from either side I would say the question is impossible to answer. The fact that you say no and others say yes is a case of people taking sides without a clue as to what actually happened to make it end like this. A few drips here and there from both sides but nothing at all that enables us to answer that question...obviously imo :smile:

From previous discussions you will know I was less than impressed with some of Gus press statements but should he have been sacked? I really have no idea although I will back what TB and the board decide as we need to move on.

If I had spent £130m on a new stadium and training ground, taken on a manager with little experience and backed him as well as possible and then that person had publically questioned my ambition, asked to leave, failed to deal with the retained players list and touted himself for every premier league (and some Championship) job available, then I would have sacked him. Respect goes two ways and that is why TB is a successful man.
 


Icy Gull

Back on the rollercoaster
Jul 5, 2003
72,015
If I had spent £130m on a new stadium and training ground, taken on a manager with little experience and backed him as well as possible and then that person had publically questioned my ambition, asked to leave, failed to deal with the retained players list and touted himself for every premier league (and some Championship) job available, then I would have sacked him. Respect goes two ways and that is why TB is a successful man.

Which is why I'll back TB but that doesn't mean there isn't more to this than we can even guess at so we can't be sure sacking him was the right thing to do.
 


Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
12,898
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Is this any different to those saying he absolutely should have been sacked?? Without having anywhere near the full information from either side I would say the question is impossible to answer. The fact that you say no and others say yes is a case of people taking sides without a clue as to what actually happened to make it end like this. A few drips here and there from both sides but nothing at all that enables us to answer that question...obviously imo :smile:

From previous discussions you will know I was less than impressed with some of Gus press statements but should he have been sacked? I really have no idea although I will back what TB and the board decide as we need to move on.

Let me explain myself - I'm saying that he shouldn't have been sacked the way he was regardless of what he did*. I don't really need to know that to form my opinion that he should have been released mutually and amicably (in public). The drawn out suspension/sacking/gross misconduct/potential court case saga has damaged us and damaged Gus in my opinion.



*I'll accept that there are a few scenarios that should lead to an instant sacking, but all the stories swirling are centred around activities in March, two months before he was suspended.
 




SeagullSongs

And it's all gone quiet..
Oct 10, 2011
6,937
Southampton
Are you optimistic going into the new season?

Quite, I think we'll finish in the top 10, but this season may end up being more about rebuilding and restructuring the team and the playing style to suit Oscar's more attacking philosophy, or altering the midset of the current players who were educated in the ways of Gus.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?

We can't say for sure, but I will always be on the side of the club. I believe the club had its reasons for sacking him.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?

He doesn't want to get sued, and to be honest, it's probably for the best if the supporters never actually find out what went on, as much as we'd like to know.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?

He must have a case, otherwise he'd be a very stupid man to do so. Of course it will taint his legacy, but it won't detract from his achievements.

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?

On first inspection, he is more than worthy, he seems to be the perfect natural progression. First we learnt to keep the ball, now we'll learn what to do with it.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?

Yes, but not irreparable damage. My dad always says "There's no such thing as bad publicity".

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?

I think so, yes. Oscar seems a very down-to-earth guy who will keep his nose out of trouble and will be focused on his job and the project here. He said it himself that if he wanted money he could've gone somewhere else, he came here because he thought it was the best place for him to come.
 


Seagull over Canaryland

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2011
3,549
Norfolk
Let me explain myself - I'm saying that he shouldn't have been sacked the way he was regardless of what he did*. I don't really need to know that to form my opinion that he should have been released mutually and amicably (in public). The drawn out suspension/sacking/gross misconduct/potential court case saga has damaged us and damaged Gus in my opinion.

*I'll accept that there are a few scenarios that should lead to an instant sacking, but all the stories swirling are centred around activities in March, two months before he was suspended.

Yes I'd rather this whole matter hadn't happened but I'm not sure a 'mutual release / amicably (in public)' response was appropriate given the range of Gus related matters that are already in the public domain - and had been going on for months, plus we don't know what other stuff went on behind closed doors. Some of the issues had been going on for months which suggests that the Albion had demonstrated patience and that Gus was content to keep pushing his luck. The Suarez racism matter was an example of a non-Albion matter that Gus chose to wade into and even when the media started to question his position did not recognise he was defending the indefensible and that his judgement is open to question.

At some point an employer is entitled to deal with an employee whose attitude and actions do not warrant summary dismissal but are consistently and increasingly undermining the stability and well being of the Club at a very critical time. I think Poyet was on an inevitable collision course with the Club and although no one wanted the adverse publicity that has arisen, you cannot condone his behaviour so to just let him go might be custom and (bad) practice in football - but is not a way to run a business.

I believe that Tony Bloom is an honourable man but also a successful businessman so not a soft touch who can be ridden rough shod over, especially given all he has done for The Albion. TB appears to have supported Gus well, however TB does not have bottomless pockets, but that does not appear good enough for Gus. So I don't think the Club had much choice but to stand its ground. Don't forget that the Club elected to investigate the allegations, gave Gus an opportunity to explain his side at a full hearing and again on appeal, rather than just give him the gooner in the traditional manner.

Gus has acted like a petulant child that demands more and more and when told 'no' throws a tantrum. Tony rightly put him on the naughty step. That's not just my take on the matter but I note its also the view of several neutral footie observers who normally aren't that sympathetic to the Albion, so I think Gus is now losing the PR war.
 


BrightonSkyBlue

New member
Aug 5, 2013
4
Many thanks for the responses I've had so far, this is fantastic. Really interested to hear your thoughts. I will come back to post the article once it's up.
 


BrightonSkyBlue

New member
Aug 5, 2013
4
As a Brighton fan living near Coventry, i think you need to worry a lot more about your own club - what is going on there is not much worse than what happened to us 16-17 years ago

Hi Wolfie. Believe me, I am far more concerned about us than Brighton right now :). I have written fairly extensively on the subject:

http://thetwounfortunates.com/grey-skies-and-silver-linings-at-coventry-city/
http://www.just-football.com/2013/07/coventry-city-abyss-administration-sisu/
http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1165-august-2013/10103-coventry-city-set-for-a-season-of-struggle
 




Thunder Bolt

Ordinary Supporter
Are you optimistic going into the new season?
No, I'm still in the wait & see frame of mind. Oscar seems to have good credentials but hasn't managed in England before. I'll be delighted if he's a success.

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?
I don't know.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?
I don't know.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?
I think he is not so much concerned that he was sacked, as he wanted to leave anyway, but more concerned over the 'gross misconduct' label.

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?
Probably.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?
Yes, definitely. I have had fans of other clubs & neutrals comment as much to me.

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?
I hope so. I always want the Albion to do well, what Brighton fan wouldn't?
 


Simon Morgan

New member
Oct 30, 2004
6,065
Oxford
Are you optimistic going into the new season?

Neither optimistic nor pessimistic at the moment. I think everyone is in agreement that at least a couple more players are required before we can think about improving on last season

Were BHAFC right to sack Poyet?

I find it very sad that Gus won't be the man that takes us to the PL. Whether or not he or the club are in the wrong (I suspect Gus is more guilty but the club are not faultless), it is deeply regrettable that he had to go. He did a fantastic job and cared about the club.

Why won't Tony Bloom release details of the reason behind Poyet's dismissal?

To an extent he sort of has. Apparently, Gus expressed his desire to leave just prior to one of the biggest games in the club's recent history (Palace at home in the league). Given our end to the season, you can't really accuse GP of wavering in his commitment to the task. I never got the impression he was becoming distant at any stage, so there may have been other factors.

Is Poyet right to take the club to court, and will doing so taint his legacy?

Gus can be all bluster sometimes and many suspect that his threats of legal action are yet more evidence of that. It will taint his legacy, and it would probably be for the best if he just let it go. People have been sacked in far harsher circumstances and GP was given the right of appeal (which he unsuccessfully pursued).

Is Garcia a worthy replacement?

I hope so. He appears to be more committed to attack than Gus was. In true football fan fashion, everyone is wetting themselves about him despite not having heard of him a couple of months ago. Saying that, I can't imagine Tony Bloom (our chairman) making a bad appointment.

Do you think the episode caused damage to the club in terms of PR?

Definitely. Poo-gate was horrendously embarrassing for everyone connected with the club and it has been a tumultuous summer. This in conjunction with the sex trials involving several of our younger players (now proven innocent) means everyone at BHAFC is probably quite happy for the club to keep its head down for a bit.

Will Albion be able to overcome the off-field issues and carry on the positive momentum of the past few years?

In the long-term, yes. The off-field issues are nothing compared to what some have to go through (you have my sincere condolences for what has happened at your club in recent months) and the infrastructure is there for a real push for the Premier League. We'll certainly go up before we go down.
 



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