Faith versus religion

brixtonA23 · Jul 21, 2013

As it is a Sunday.

You should never attack people who hold a faith, even if you disagree with their ideas, so long as their faith does not affect yourself. But religion seems to engender a doctrine in people that makes it necessary to convert non believers into their way of thinking.

In footballing parlance, I have no problem with a (pick any team) supporter telling me that they have the best team. But as soon as they tell me the Albion is a terrible team and I am living in sin because of my support and that to support their team would guarantee a top four finish in the Premier League, I start to get a little annoyed.

Personally, I like to think I live in a country where we accommodate faith without judgement of religion. Why does it seem to be so difficult to have a reciprocal arrangement.

brightn'ove · Jul 21, 2013

121 pages

Tricky Dicky · Jul 21, 2013

Religion is the most divisive thing ever invented by man, although if people didn't fight about that, they'd find something else to fight about.

Mowgli37 · Jul 21, 2013

Harry Wilson's tackle · Jul 21, 2013

Hmm . . . . faith and religion is all the same to me. It is a belief system that, unlike 'rationality' does not require proof. In fact some faiths/religions revel in the fact that you must not ask for proof, since this denies belief.

This is all rooted in our history - most humans lived short and brutish lives till fairy recently and required a belief in a better afterlife to get through the day.

No, sorry, I have no time for faith or religion, and feel sorry for those who have a need for it. But I don't mind quiet faith if it makes a person happier. Its a bit weedy, but so's boozing and all the other stuff we do to take the edge of life.

I do agree with you about folk who try to impose their faith/religion on others, though. Whether is is the patronizing Christian who feels sorry for my godlessness, or the fundamentalist who thinks I should be beheadded . . . . wankers the lot of them! Brace yourselves - there is no god.

Frutos · Jul 21, 2013

64 pages, 2 bannings and a flounce.

Goring-by-Seagull · Jul 21, 2013

Just follow Godless Spellchecker on twitter, he has all the answers (@GSpellchecker).

Medwayseagull · Jul 21, 2013

Are agnostics or atheists part of this debate ?

KZNSeagull · Jul 21, 2013

brixtonA23 said:
But religion seems to engender a doctrine in people that makes it necessary to convert non believers into their way of thinking.

How many times have you tried to be converted by a Christian? Now how many by a Muslim, Hindu, Buddist etc. My experience is that it is only rampant Christians who try to force their beliefs down your throat.

brixtonA23 · Jul 21, 2013

KZNSeagull said:
How many times have you tried to be converted by a Christian? Now has ow many by a Muslim, Hindu, Buddist etc. My experience is that it is only rampant Christians who try to force their beliefs down your throat.

Very well observed. The word fundamentalist is overused in respect of muslims, whereas a fundamentalist Christian is generally accepted.

Sometimes just forget the first syllable in the word and close the door.

drew · Jul 21, 2013

Is it actually faith or would it be more appropriate to call it fear? I would suggest that the reason most people who have faith (as opposed to those that blindly follow a set religion) is because of a fear of what happens when they die. Also, a fear of the consequences of their own decisions when it is easier to pass the buck and claim your decision was made following prayer or guidance from some deity.

Personally, I don't believe in any form of life after death other than the memories of you that you leave behind with others. I also don't believe in the power of prayer as why does a deity answer some and not others. Take out those two principles and faith/religion is left with nothing. That doesn't mean you live your life with no regard to others; you don't have to be religious to be civil.

As for the OP's post, you should be able to challenge those that believe to question their own faith but that doesn't mean you need to be oppressive about it.

AlbionRob · Jul 21, 2013

Medwayseagull said:
Are agnostics or atheists part of this debate ?

I'm not so sure!?!

Albumen · Jul 21, 2013

brixtonA23 said:
As it is a Sunday.

You should never attack people who hold a faith, even if you disagree with their ideas, so long as their faith does not affect yourself. But religion seems to engender a doctrine in people that makes it necessary to convert non believers into their way of thinking.

In footballing parlance, I have no problem with a (pick any team) supporter telling me that they have the best team. But as soon as they tell me the Albion is a terrible team and I am living in sin because of my support and that to support their team would guarantee a top four finish in the Premier League, I start to get a little annoyed.

Personally, I like to think I live in a country where we accommodate faith without judgement of religion. Why does it seem to be so difficult to have a reciprocal arrangement.

People with faith in government does affect me, and society as a whole. Irrational thinkers shouldn't be at the top.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 21, 2013

Tricky Dicky said:
Religion is the most divisive thing ever invented by man.

After chat rooms that is.

beorhthelm · Jul 21, 2013

KZNSeagull said:
How many times have you tried to be converted by a Christian? Now how many by a Muslim, Hindu, Buddist etc. My experience is that it is only rampant Christians who try to force their beliefs down your throat.

you're joking right? it might be a lot more subtle that being "forced", but there is constant attempt to doctrinate and preach religions in the background. see gay marriage debate, the fundemental objection was that it wasnt acceptable to religions. christmas and easter?

BrickTamland · Jul 21, 2013

Religion is my favourite debate. Could get interesting. Would recommend the documentary 'Religulous' by Bill Maher for anyone interested in atheism vs religion.

KZNSeagull · Jul 21, 2013

brixtonA23 said:
Very well observed. The word fundamentalist is overused in respect of muslims, whereas a fundamentalist Christian is generally accepted.

Sometimes just forget the first syllable in the word and close the door.

Not sure what you mean by a fundamentalist and I would not use that word. I am talking about everyday exchanges with people of different faiths.

I live in a very religious, mixed faith country. A country that will bleep out the word God on the television automatically (try watching films like Bruce Almighty when that happens!).

I own a book shop and get many people of different faiths in there, including Hindu's, Christians and burka wearing Muslims. Not once has a Muslim or Hindu ever said anything to me about their beliefs, or complained that I do not sell enough books on their faith. Christians on the other hand are another story - some complain bitterly about all sorts, from not having enough Bibles on sale to selling Harry Potter or the God Delusion.

We also have a new "church" in the area who aggressively recruit young people to their fold. From my observations, these appear to be mainly teenage girls. They stand on street corners singing and trying to engage with people. I have never seen this with other religions (I am sure it happens somewhere in the world though).

The local rep from the SA Bible Society tells me every time he comes in the shop that there are 100,000 Zulu's in the area all desperate for bibles. Not from my observations there are not - they are desperate for food and a job. I do not have anyone from the local Mosque telling me that there are 100,000 Zulus desperate for the Koran.

Anyway, enough of that. Anyone can have faith - they do not have to be part of an organised religion in order to do so.

KZNSeagull · Jul 21, 2013

beorhthelm said:
you're joking right? it might be a lot more subtle that being "forced", but there is constant attempt to doctrinate and preach religions in the background. see gay marriage debate, the fundemental objection was that it wasnt acceptable to religions. christmas and easter?

Christmas and Easter are Christian festivals, so I assume that you mean that this is Christian indoctrination? The excuse for that is that you and I live in "Christian" countries, mine more than yours. But the gay marriage act has been passed there hasn't it? So they raised their objections, which they can and should, but they have not stopped it from happening. I don't see a problem with that.

BrickTamland · Jul 21, 2013

The main issue with the debate is that many people fail to grasp how powerful indoctrination is. To Those born into religion it is all you can understand. No words from a 'sinning' non believer or atheist will change their opinion.

I feel quite privileged to have been born into a non faith family and have been able to choose what I believe. I went to a Church of England school and regularly learnt about the bible and even then I couldn't differentiate between the stories in there and fairy tales. Like mentioned above religion is just away to get over the fact that life is short.

dougdeep · Jul 21, 2013

I don't believe in anything. Are any of you real out there?

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