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What are the positive reasons for staying in the EU?
- Thread starter piersa
- Start date
dougdeep
New member
Hillian1
( . ) ( . )
It is better to be on the train pissing at the people on the platform than standing on the platform trying to piss into the moving train.
daveinprague
New member
Ive read somewhere that a majority of businessmen want to stay in the EU.
yxee
Well-known member
It's a trading bloc, if we leave we have to set up a load of bilateral trade agreements to avoid tariffs. How much hassle this would be I don't know, but in economic terms it would be a lot simpler to stay put, not to mention businesses generally don't like uncertainty in future trading options and, they price this uncertainty into the market.
Makes it seem ridiculous to set a referendum on it in 4 years, doesn't it. Economic uncertainty for nothing in return (apart from the fact that Cameron temporarily stops UKIP stealing his MPs).
Makes it seem ridiculous to set a referendum on it in 4 years, doesn't it. Economic uncertainty for nothing in return (apart from the fact that Cameron temporarily stops UKIP stealing his MPs).
If we left then basically, as above, a lot of trade agreements would have to be renegotiated. I work for a company that does a lot of Pan European business and the status quo would suit us.
It's not just business / trade etc though. Think properly about some of the alternatives, particularly when it comes to immigration. Think about the length of the line when you go through customs and now double your wait on each side as every European joins the lines currently only occupied by 'Non EU' and your own passport is checked in minute detail. Might you need a visa for your 2 weeks in Spain? What if, having renegotiated you trade agreements you have a French company as a client but you can't hire a native French speaker until their immigration clears (but your German competitor can). How do you replace those Polish cleaners and receptionists you just had to let go. With English people?
Our football team would look vastly different. Would Oscar be our coach or Ulloa our striker if we weren't in the EU?
And finally the human rights thing. If you think about it properly then Jeremy Bamber is a ruthless **** and lots of lawyers are ruthless ****s. If the ECHR did not exist he'd just be looking for another loophole in UK law and there'd be plenty helping him. On the other hand your own human rights would suddenly be a lot less protected.
It's not just business / trade etc though. Think properly about some of the alternatives, particularly when it comes to immigration. Think about the length of the line when you go through customs and now double your wait on each side as every European joins the lines currently only occupied by 'Non EU' and your own passport is checked in minute detail. Might you need a visa for your 2 weeks in Spain? What if, having renegotiated you trade agreements you have a French company as a client but you can't hire a native French speaker until their immigration clears (but your German competitor can). How do you replace those Polish cleaners and receptionists you just had to let go. With English people?
Our football team would look vastly different. Would Oscar be our coach or Ulloa our striker if we weren't in the EU?
And finally the human rights thing. If you think about it properly then Jeremy Bamber is a ruthless **** and lots of lawyers are ruthless ****s. If the ECHR did not exist he'd just be looking for another loophole in UK law and there'd be plenty helping him. On the other hand your own human rights would suddenly be a lot less protected.
seagullsovergrimsby
#cpfctinpotclub
The renegotiating on trade agreements is unnecessary because by joining EFTA at the same time of leaving the EU this would also make us a member state of the EEA and able to compete on level terms in the EU internal market.
Pavilionaire
Well-known member
- Jul 7, 2003
- 30,564
1. Peace.
2. Practical.
3. Trade.
4. Environment.
2. Practical.
3. Trade.
4. Environment.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,299
i'm very curious why *our* being in the EU helps peace, whats practical about it or what advantage it has for the environment?
as far as im concerned, the positives are all around trade, free markets, freedom of movement etc. But thats the positives for being in the *EEC* and apply to the EEA. the EU comes with a whole boat load of political baggage in which all the negative reasons wallow. As Euro states are drawn to ever closer political and fiscal union, our membership of the EU will become more and more unsustainable.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
I find it curious that tables are turned when this debate comes up. The typically free market, right-wing Eurosceptics put principles of self-government before money whereas the pro-European and probably left-wing side argue that it would affect our trading power.
As mentioned several times on other threads, the ECHR has no connection to the EU.
That's very true and an interesting paradox - although there are people of the left who will argue that workers' rights are protected by the EU (dodgy argument though it is) and that the environment, as pointed out by Pav, is better protected by the EU (and I think there's some substance in it).
But then there's an issue for people (like me) who are vaguely leftish but also tend to opposed to the EU. I shudder at the thought of voting for the crazies in UKIP but nearly all the other parties are pro-EU, I do feel that I'll end up for voting for an EU party and it's not particularly comfortable.
Albion Robster
Well-known member
The East Upper is the place to be on a Saturday afternoon...you're talking about The Amex right 
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,299
no paradox really, just a disingenuous argument from the europhile left. they emphasise the trade benefits to distract from the intended political movement to shift to a statist-socialist agenda. the eurosceptics are perfectly happy with the trade, they just dont want the rest of the controls.
Brian Parsons
New member
We should consider these points, Stand in your kitchen and count the the number of British made items, not many eh? consider who much those items would cost to repair/replace outside the EU. Also most of our utility companies are owned by French/ German companies guess how much your bills would rise by if we were outside the EU. Finally look outside your house and is your car British, no i didn't think so. Imagine your options if you take out French, German,Italian,Spanish,Swedish made cars buying and maintaining would be astronomical outside the EU.
I am not pro EU but I think we missed to boat back in the seventies when we had the only referendum so far.
I am not pro EU but I think we missed to boat back in the seventies when we had the only referendum so far.
drew
Drew
That's a shame because we have some nice beaches. Also, the piers would become redundant with no sea!
Dandyman
In London village.
A paradox that grows deeper when it is pointed out these right-wing champions of national sovereignty also seem to oppose any attempt by national governments to curb the power of international capital and in particular international finance capital. The explanation being that what is sought is not democratic accountability but an U.S. style minimum rights race to the bottom labour market and even more superficial democratic control of the markets than currently exists.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,299
a very good illustration of why the EU wouldnt want to impose trade tariffs on what is the second largest economy in Europe.
Given the EU currently only has FOUR FTA's agreed with non-EU countries I don't think it's that much of a problem. Those countries being Chile, South Korea, Mexico and South Africa ( and I believe we already have our own with South Korea and South Africa ) it's hardly the calamity pro-EU people would have us believe !
But the UK is only about 10% of the size of the EU bloc so trading with it will have little impact on EU finances and be way down the list of trading partner priorities which will be topped by Brazil, China, US....hence the current discussions with the US.