Our politicians...

Simster · Jul 8, 2013

have been suspiciously quiet over what is happening in Egypt. As if ANY of them would tolerate being forced from power after a "popular uprising" barely a year into their term.

And now 34 lie dead in counter protests. When are our government going to condemn this? Or is it all OK, because the elected government were the muslim brotherhood? It's all very reminisent of the sickening scenes in 1980s South America whenever anyone left of centre dared to win an election.

Albion Dan · Jul 8, 2013

It is outrageous that the Army have been able to overthrow a democratically elected party, and even worse that those seemingly being lined up to replace them have strong ties to the pro west Mubarak regime. All of this without any serious condemnation from Western Govts. In fact Tony Blair, the chief architect of Middle East unrest was publicly backing the coup yesterday. Yet another country in that region heading for all out civil war and mass bloodshed. Wont be long till Israel start getting active and an all out cross border war develops which could suck in most of the developed world imo.

Simster · Jul 8, 2013

I'm repulsed by the way it's been reported as well. No serious effort has been made to find out WHY these people were protesting in the first place. The standard reasons appears to be "the Muslim Brotherhood have been treating Egypt as if they own the country and have only done what suits them and not the country"

So nothing so obviously and blatantly WRONG then. And in any case, the time to change that is at the ballot box next election surely? Where is the reporting of those Egyptians who feel that way about the situation? It is an absolute disgrace.

DTES · Jul 8, 2013

Albion Dan said:
In fact Tony Blair, the chief architect of Middle East unrest was publicly backing the coup yesterday.

Indeed. I heard him on R4 talking about how we need to provide economic support for them now to get them on their feet. What I didn't hear - for some reason - was any comment whatsoever on the deaths of those just taking part in a sit-in...

Brian Fantana · Jul 8, 2013

The democratically elected government appears to have been overthrown because, and I quote from a reporter on the radio last week, 'they weren't governing the country for the whole population.'

Surely, that's an impossibility, anyway?! The point of having a democracy is that you allow everyone to have a vote and then hand power to the party with the most votes. Naturally, therefore, there are going to be individuals/sections of the population who don't agree with government policy.

beorhthelm · Jul 8, 2013

there was apparently a recent petition against Morsi, calling for him to go. it had more signatures than voted in the Muslim brotherhood. i dont understand the details, but it seems he was deeply unpopular.

Simster · Jul 8, 2013

beorhthelm said:
there was apparently a recent petition against Morsi, calling for him to go. it had more signatures than voted in the Muslim brotherhood. i dont understand the details, but it seems he was deeply unpopular.

So it's OK to overthrow them because they were unpopular one year into their term of office? New government in low mid-term popularity shock.

What about the 34 people shot dead protesting about this coup d'etat? Is that OK too?

somerset · Jul 8, 2013

Simster said:
So it's OK to overthrow them because they were unpopular one year into their term of office?

..yes, if they fail to implement a single policy that got them voted in.....not one even started.

Democracy, the will of the people.

beorhthelm · Jul 8, 2013

Simster said:
So it's OK to overthrow them because they were unpopular one year into their term of office? New government in low mid-term popularity shock.

What about the 34 people shot dead protesting about this coup d'etat? Is that OK too?

did I say any of that? just an observation, you have to be trying pretty hard to get that sort of disapproval within a year. theres a flaw with democracy that if someone not very nice or very good is voted in by accident of being popular, you're supposed to be stuck with them until the end of their term. thats all very well for us in the west with parties and politicians that attempt consensus or bow to popularist campaigns against excesses, but not all countries may have the rest of the apparatus to allow democracy to function. we've seen time and again you cant simply impose democracy on nations and expect them to just get along with it. its taken us decades, even hundreds of years to develop to what we have today, and requires deep and wide social acceptance.

DTES · Jul 8, 2013

somerset said:
..yes, if they fail to implement a single policy that got them voted in.....not one even started.

Democracy, the will of the people.

...or the will of the army? And then the murder (I can't think of a better word) of those that still support Morsi?

If Cameron had refused to implement anything in his manifesto, you'd support the army removing him and shooting those who remain members of the conservative party?

Brian Fantana · Jul 8, 2013

DTES said:
...or the will of the army? And then the murder (I can't think of a better word) of those that still support Morsi?

If Cameron had refused to implement anything in his manifesto, you'd support the army removing him and shooting those who remain members of the conservative party?

Nail. Head.

Seagull73 · Jul 8, 2013

DTES said:
If Cameron had refused to implement anything in his manifesto, you'd support the army removing him and shooting those who remain members of the conservative party?

WHAT a good idea.....

Seagull73 · Jul 8, 2013

beorhthelm said:
did I say any of that? just an observation, you have to be trying pretty hard to get that sort of disapproval within a year. theres a flaw with democracy that if someone not very nice or very good is voted in by accident of being popular, you're supposed to be stuck with them until the end of their term. thats all very well for us in the west with parties and politicians that attempt consensus or bow to popularist campaigns against excesses, but not all countries may have the rest of the apparatus to allow democracy to function. we've seen time and again you cant simply impose democracy on nations and expect them to just get along with it. its taken us decades, even hundreds of years to develop to what we have today, and requires deep and wide social acceptance.

Quite

withdeanwombat · Jul 8, 2013

Yes, okay, I'm better at BBQ threads, but didn't the democratically elected Morsi try to change the constitution to give himself many more and possibly overriding powers shortly after the election ?

And yes, I know and accept that in a democracy there are losers as well as winners, but I like the analogy of S America and it's leftist govts. The right, which usually includes the military (sometimes exclusively) does not see it as a good thing, and has to act to protect the people against itself. Nothing wrong with that, eh ?

And , as has been said, there is the muslim attachment. If they'd been called the Egyptian Gentleman's Brotherhood, well, Bobs yer Uncle, every one shocked and horrified, politicians on the telly giving us their opinions.

It's a dangerous part of the world, and this won't make it any better any time soon.

Seagull73 · Jul 8, 2013

withdeanwombat said:
Yes, okay, I'm better at BBQ threads, but didn't the democratically elected Morsi try to change the constitution to give himself many more and possibly overriding powers shortly after the election ?

Yes, yes he did.

Pavilionaire · Jul 8, 2013

Hopefully as their democracy develops they might enact some laws about killing their own people.

somerset · Jul 8, 2013

Mustafa said:
Our governments supported Jihadist rebels throughout the Arab Spring
.

Why are you always selective when spouting your 'one-eyed' views?....You perhaps more accurately should have said,.."Our governments supported a myriad of allied anti-regime groups, which did include Jihadist groups, in the hope of encouraging the creation of a secular democracy reflecting the views of the entire population"....

Buzzer · Jul 8, 2013

I'm all in favour of Egyptian protests. They have the best protective headwear on the planet. And I'm going to bounce my own thread:

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?194455-Essential-hatwear-guide-for-the-discerning-Egyptian-revolutionary

Genius

ROSM · Jul 8, 2013

And what about those nice libyans that we supported in their attempts to overthrow that nasty gadaffi (who we had just made friends with) they dont seem to be doing anything bad except killing, maiming, brutality towards women etc. But for some reason, we don't seem to be showing that on British tv news

keaton · Jul 8, 2013

DTES said:
...or the will of the army? And then the murder (I can't think of a better word) of those that still support Morsi?

If Cameron had refused to implement anything in his manifesto, you'd support the army removing him and shooting those who remain members of the conservative party?

That's a yes from me

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