An utter waste of time and money

spring hall convert · Jul 4, 2013

Is it a good use of tax payers money to ignore an independent report and making a perfectly harmless "drug" illegal? Basically, in one swoop wasting police time and criminalising an already alienated section of society rather than making it a controlled substance and taxing it. That's loss-loss-loss.

I'm talking about khat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23163017

Seriously, what is the pointing in funding a QUANGO such as the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs if they are just going to be routinely ignored and derided?

bWize · Jul 4, 2013

spring hall convert said:
Is it a good use of tax payers money would be to ignore an independent report and making a perfectly harmless "drug" illegal? Basically, in one swoop wasting police time and criminalising an already alienated section of society rather than making it a controlled substance and taxing it. That's loss-loss-loss.

I'm talking about khat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23163017

Seriously, what is the pointing in funding a QUANGO such as the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs if they are just going to be routinely ignored and derided?

I fully agree with you. I think the people making these laws must be on drugs themselves. This quote made me laugh:

The UK's decision to follow suit is based on security and international considerations, in particular concerns the UK could be used as a transit route for khat to other European countries.

The UK could be used as a transit route for ANYTHING - why is Khat so special?. If that's their entire reasoning behind it then they really have lost the plot.

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 4, 2013

spring hall convert said:
Is it a good use of tax payers money to ignore an independent report and making a perfectly harmless "drug" illegal? Basically, in one swoop wasting police time and criminalising an already alienated section of society rather than making it a controlled substance and taxing it. That's loss-loss-loss.

I'm talking about khat.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23163017

Seriously, what is the pointing in funding a QUANGO such as the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs if they are just going to be routinely ignored and derided?

Totally with you. The only person on this QUANGO who spoke any sense was that Professor Nutt chap and the government kicked him out as his scientific views and opinions didn't fit the political agenda.

spring hall convert · Jul 5, 2013

Herr Tubthumper said:
Totally with you. The only person on this QUANGO who spoke any sense was that Professor Nutt chap and the government kicked him out as his scientific views and opinions didn't fit the political agenda.

Not so Herr T, they've come out against this and again have just been ignored. I don't see what the point is in wasting public money if all decisions in this area are going to be made on political rather than evidence based grounds.

spring hall convert · Jul 5, 2013

Arundel_Seagull said:
I fully agree with you. I think the people making these laws must be on drugs themselves. This quote made me laugh:

The UK could be used as a transit route for ANYTHING - why is Khat so special?. If that's their entire reasoning behind it then they really have lost the plot.

I get the feeling that the reasoning is alltogether more sinister when you consider the ethinic origin of the majority of users.

dougdeep · Jul 5, 2013

Isn't" harmless drug" an oxymoron?

spring hall convert · Jul 5, 2013

dougdeep said:
Isn't" harmless drug" an oxymoron?

Fair point. How about comparatively harmless? Non addictive & with no recorded fatalities.

Springal · Jul 5, 2013

Must admit our stance on a lot of drugs are a joke. Go to any festival and you get treated like an absolute criminal before you going, even heard at Global Gathering they have strip search tents !

8ace · Jul 5, 2013

Anyone tried this khat gear

Herr Tubthumper · Jul 5, 2013

Springal said:
Must admit our stance on a lot of drugs are a joke. Go to any festival and you get treated like an absolute criminal before you going, even heard at Global Gathering they have strip search tents !

The whole war on drugs policy is a joke. As I have said before, if any other policy had been given the same amount of money and time with no discernible improvement it would have been shelved decades ago. If anything drugs are easier to buy now than they have ever been. The whole thing needs a different approach and a different way of thinking.

Springal · Jul 5, 2013

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of drugs that are damaging to society, and can ruin lives. However a lot of 'recreational' drugs, when taken with care and certain measures, are a lot more pleasant to be around than people intoxicated with alcohol. Just go to the majority of clubs in Ibiza and you'll see happy, smiling, loved up people. Go down the west-end and you have some 18st Geordie beer boy wanting to smash your face in.

beorhthelm · Jul 5, 2013

dougdeep said:
Isn't" harmless drug" an oxymoron?

absolutly not, unless you are using a different meaning to the words, or making an unfounded ussumptions about drugs.

BHAZiggy · Jul 5, 2013

"Somali groups in the UK had told the ACMD that use of khat was a "significant social problem" and said it caused medical issues and family breakdowns."
That doesn't sound perfectly harmless to me.
However, I don't support prohibition of drugs for 2 reasons.
1. It should be an individual's right to decide what they put into their own bodies.
2. It doesn't work. It simply hands control to criminals who mix dangerous substances with relatively safe drugs (when pure) and that is killing far more people than the pure drug would if users could get them from chemists. Such substances should be in the hands of experts who can offer proper informed advice to the users.

spring hall convert · Jul 5, 2013

BHAZiggy said:
"Somali groups in the UK had told the ACMD that use of khat was a "significant social problem" and said it caused medical issues and family breakdowns."
That doesn't sound perfectly harmless to me.
However, I don't support prohibition of drugs for 2 reasons.
1. It should be an individual's right to decide what they put into their own bodies.
2. It doesn't work. It simply hands control to criminals who mix dangerous substances with relatively safe drugs (when pure) and that is killing far more people than the pure drug would if users could get them from chemists. Such substances should be in the hands of experts who can offer proper informed advice to the users.

Replace the word khat with alcohol in that sentence. Does it still ring true?

My suspicion is that the desire to prohibit khat has nothing to do with it's dangers, real or apparent.

BHAZiggy · Jul 5, 2013

spring hall convert said:
Replace the word khat with alcohol in that sentence. Does it still ring true?

My suspicion is that the desire to prohibit khat has nothing to do with it's dangers, real or apparent.

Absolutely. Including the part about prohibition handing it to criminals and killing people. Ask American historians.
Don't get me wrong. I am essentially agreeing with you but to call anything 'harmless' without considering ALL of the facts provided is naive.

cunning fergus · Jul 5, 2013

Herr Tubthumper said:
Totally with you. The only person on this QUANGO who spoke any sense was that Professor Nutt chap and the government kicked him out as his scientific views and opinions didn't fit the political agenda.

Who I wonder is setting the political agenda here.................

http://www.eurad.net/en/news/khat/Khat+Use+Growing.9UFRnW2H.ips

I mean even the Dutch have banned it..............

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/news-brief/1383001-netherlands-bans-khat

They were surprised too.....................probably just a coincidence.

spring hall convert · Jul 5, 2013

BHAZiggy said:
Absolutely. Including the part about prohibition handing it to criminals and killing people. Ask American historians.
Don't get me wrong. I am essentially agreeing with you but to call anything 'harmless' without considering ALL of the facts provided is naive.

And I was essentially agreeing with you. Though on the harmfulness scale khat appears to be below marijuana, alcohol, tobacco & possibly red bull

sydney · Jul 5, 2013

if you can get yer mojo on with a 5 quid bag of khat...( two weeks worth) then yopu don't need that script for prozac ,zanex....etc etc ...

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