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Pirelli say not their fault!



seagullwedgee

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2005
2,981
Pirelli say the tyre explosions and delaminations were not their fault, it was because the team's put the tyres on the wheels the wrong way round?

Seriously? In the sport of microscopic detail, is it possible to put a tyre on a wheel 'the wrong way round'!!!
 


hans kraay fan club

The voice of reason.
Helpful Moderator
Mar 16, 2005
61,094
Chandlers Ford
Pirelli say the tyre explosions and delaminations were not their fault, it was because the team's put the tyres on the wheels the wrong way round?

Seriously? In the sport of microscopic detail, is it possible to put a tyre on a wheel 'the wrong way round'!!!

Yes. They have specific tyres for the right rear, and specific tyres for the left rear. The suggestion is that the affected teams switched them.
 


Martlet

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2003
679
Apparently it's common practice, as teams only have a limited number of wheels for each weekend. Pirelli have known this was going on - so for them to claim it's fine for the wheels to burst is laughable (they could have issued an edict saying "Don't swap the wheels!").

It's just a joke now - F1's going to disappear right up its arse over the next few years, as Bernie goes to jail and Middle/Far Eastern money takes over. Bit like the prem really...
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,265
what, all four teams effected made the same error? but presumably didnt make the error on the cars were the tyres didnt explode?

either way, it rather detracts from the main point i thought, how the tyres didnt cope with sudden pressure loss.
 


carlzeiss

Well-known member
May 19, 2009
5,830
Amazonia
It's just a joke now - F1's going to disappear right up its arse over the next few years, as Bernie goes to jail and Middle/Far Eastern money takes over. Bit like the prem really...[/QUOTE]

Why is Bernie going to Jail ?
 








strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,965
Barnsley
It seems (this is only going by what has been reported) that this was a known issue that nobody talked about before last weekend. The teams knew that they could get more wear from the tyres by running them the wrong way round and not fully-inflating them. Pirelli knew the teams were doing this, and knew that the tyres weren't designed to cope with this, but they never complained. The FIA knew the teams were running tyres on the wrong wheels and under-pressure and knew that the tyres were untested for this purpose, but they either didn't understand the potential danger of this or didn't care.

The problem seems to be that nobody was willing to take action. Had Pirelli come out and said it was a unsafe practice, I am sure the FIA would have investigated. Had one of the teams complained that other teams were misusing the tyres for a performance advantage, I'm sure the FIA would have investigated. Had the FIA been responsible, even without the complaints from teams or Pirelli, I am sure they would have investigated the matter. As the FIA employ the scrutineers, it would seem reasonable that they were aware of the prevalence of this practice.

The reported facts, accusations and counter-accusations seems to suggest this is everybody's fault, everybody knew this practice was happening, and everybody knew that there was an element of the unknown about running tyres under-pressure and in the wrong direction. This finger-pointing is a farcical side show.
 




Goldstone1976

We Got Calde in!!
Helpful Moderator
NSC Patreon
Apr 30, 2013
13,765
Herts
It seems (this is only going by what has been reported) that this was a known issue that nobody talked about before last weekend. The teams knew that they could get more wear from the tyres by running them the wrong way round and not fully-inflating them. Pirelli knew the teams were doing this, and knew that the tyres weren't designed to cope with this, but they never complained. The FIA knew the teams were running tyres on the wrong wheels and under-pressure and knew that the tyres were untested for this purpose, but they either didn't understand the potential danger of this or didn't care.

The problem seems to be that nobody was willing to take action. Had Pirelli come out and said it was a unsafe practice, I am sure the FIA would have investigated. Had one of the teams complained that other teams were misusing the tyres for a performance advantage, I'm sure the FIA would have investigated. Had the FIA been responsible, even without the complaints from teams or Pirelli, I am sure they would have investigated the matter. As the FIA employ the scrutineers, it would seem reasonable that they were aware of the prevalence of this practice.

The reported facts, accusations and counter-accusations seems to suggest this is everybody's fault, everybody knew this practice was happening, and everybody knew that there was an element of the unknown about running tyres under-pressure and in the wrong direction. This finger-pointing is a farcical side show.

Excellent summary. Given that debris, including steel and Kevlar, flies out from the exploding tyre with the car travelling at up to 190 mph, potentially straight into the helmet of a car behind in the slipstream, it seems to me to be cavalier in the extreme. F1 (as a sport) constantly tout the improved safety (no driver has died since Senna); this set of circumstances suggests that, in some areas at least, they are rather less safety-conscious than they'd have the public believe.
 


maltaseagull

Well-known member
Feb 25, 2009
12,938
Zabbar- Malta
It seems (this is only going by what has been reported) that this was a known issue that nobody talked about before last weekend. The teams knew that they could get more wear from the tyres by running them the wrong way round and not fully-inflating them. Pirelli knew the teams were doing this, and knew that the tyres weren't designed to cope with this, but they never complained. The FIA knew the teams were running tyres on the wrong wheels and under-pressure and knew that the tyres were untested for this purpose, but they either didn't understand the potential danger of this or didn't care.

The problem seems to be that nobody was willing to take action. Had Pirelli come out and said it was a unsafe practice, I am sure the FIA would have investigated. Had one of the teams complained that other teams were misusing the tyres for a performance advantage, I'm sure the FIA would have investigated. Had the FIA been responsible, even without the complaints from teams or Pirelli, I am sure they would have investigated the matter. As the FIA employ the scrutineers, it would seem reasonable that they were aware of the prevalence of this practice.

The reported facts, accusations and counter-accusations seems to suggest this is everybody's fault, everybody knew this practice was happening, and everybody knew that there was an element of the unknown about running tyres under-pressure and in the wrong direction. This finger-pointing is a farcical side show.

I was expecting them to blame to road surface or the kerbs being too sharp LOL.

All credit to the drivers though - great control to have a blow out at 180mph and stay on track in a pretty straight line.

Why has this only happened at Silverstone and not in previous races?
 


vegster

Sanity Clause
May 5, 2008
27,867
It seems (this is only going by what has been reported) that this was a known issue that nobody talked about before last weekend. The teams knew that they could get more wear from the tyres by running them the wrong way round and not fully-inflating them. Pirelli knew the teams were doing this, and knew that the tyres weren't designed to cope with this, but they never complained. The FIA knew the teams were running tyres on the wrong wheels and under-pressure and knew that the tyres were untested for this purpose, but they either didn't understand the potential danger of this or didn't care.

The problem seems to be that nobody was willing to take action. Had Pirelli come out and said it was a unsafe practice, I am sure the FIA would have investigated. Had one of the teams complained that other teams were misusing the tyres for a performance advantage, I'm sure the FIA would have investigated. Had the FIA been responsible, even without the complaints from teams or Pirelli, I am sure they would have investigated the matter. As the FIA employ the scrutineers, it would seem reasonable that they were aware of the prevalence of this practice.

The reported facts, accusations and counter-accusations seems to suggest this is everybody's fault, everybody knew this practice was happening, and everybody knew that there was an element of the unknown about running tyres under-pressure and in the wrong direction. This finger-pointing is a farcical side show.

Interesting stuff. I'm not a F1 expert but I think I am right in saying that the FIA is at the heart of the problem. Over the years car and engine design advanced to such a stage that reliability,speed and fuel economy all meant that a, if at the start you make it to the first corner in the lead you will probably stay there and b, the cars were capable of speeds far higher than the Grands Prix circuits were designed for.

Thus we had all the fannying around with the spoilers and underside of the car and the refueling and tyre pit stops in order to break up the race and make it less of a procession. So, in this modern age, the FIA demand tyres that wear faster than they should and limit teams to the number of tyres available just in order to keep pit stops that could change the outcome of a race. It is daft, I'm pretty sure 20 years ago, cars might make only one pit stop for a tyre change and be fueled for the length of the race from the start.
 




Gregory2Smith1

J'les aurai!
Sep 21, 2011
5,476
Auch
It seems (this is only going by what has been reported) that this was a known issue that nobody talked about before last weekend. The teams knew that they could get more wear from the tyres by running them the wrong way round and not fully-inflating them. Pirelli knew the teams were doing this, and knew that the tyres weren't designed to cope with this, but they never complained. The FIA knew the teams were running tyres on the wrong wheels and under-pressure and knew that the tyres were untested for this purpose, but they either didn't understand the potential danger of this or didn't care.

The problem seems to be that nobody was willing to take action. Had Pirelli come out and said it was a unsafe practice, I am sure the FIA would have investigated. Had one of the teams complained that other teams were misusing the tyres for a performance advantage, I'm sure the FIA would have investigated. Had the FIA been responsible, even without the complaints from teams or Pirelli, I am sure they would have investigated the matter. As the FIA employ the scrutineers, it would seem reasonable that they were aware of the prevalence of this practice.

The reported facts, accusations and counter-accusations seems to suggest this is everybody's fault, everybody knew this practice was happening, and everybody knew that there was an element of the unknown about running tyres under-pressure and in the wrong direction. This finger-pointing is a farcical side show.

great post!

Formula 1 teams have always manipulated the rules in search of any advantage they can gain and always will
 


TWOCHOICEStom

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2007
10,546
Brighton
So the team knowingly used the wheels the wrong way round at the expense of driver safety?

Or did they not know that it was unsafe?

I'm confused.
 


Excellent summary. Given that debris, including steel and Kevlar, flies out from the exploding tyre with the car travelling at up to 190 mph, potentially straight into the helmet of a car behind in the slipstream, it seems to me to be cavalier in the extreme. F1 (as a sport) constantly tout the improved safety (no driver has died since Senna); this set of circumstances suggests that, in some areas at least, they are rather less safety-conscious than they'd have the public believe.
This!
I was expecting them to blame to road surface or the kerbs being too sharp LOL.

All credit to the drivers though - great control to have a blow out at 180mph and stay on track in a pretty straight line.

Why has this only happened at Silverstone and not in previous races?

Silverstone is a particularly hard track on tyres with lots of high speed cornering that puts more strain on tyres than other circuits, the Spa circuit which will feature later in the season is similar in this respect.
 




strings

Moving further North...
Feb 19, 2006
9,965
Barnsley
So the team knowingly used the wheels the wrong way round at the expense of driver safety?

Or did they not know that it was unsafe?

I'm confused.

This is something we don't know. Pirelli knew that the tyres were untested for use in this way.
 


upthealbion1970

bring on the trumpets....
NSC Patreon
Jan 22, 2009
8,861
Woodingdean
So the team knowingly used the wheels the wrong way round at the expense of driver safety?

Or did they not know that it was unsafe?

I'm confused.

They used the tyres the wrong way, not the wheels. Apologies but this is a bug bear of mine after 10+ years in the tyre industry, the wheels bolt to the car, the tyres fit onto the wheels!
 










martyn20

Unwell but still smiling
Aug 4, 2012
3,080
Burgess Hill
German Grand Prix: Drivers' Association threatens to withdraw

Formula 1 drivers have threatened to boycott Sunday's German Grand Prix if there is a repeat of the tyre failures experienced at Silverstone.
The Grand Prix Drivers' Association, which represents the vast majority of drivers, said its members wanted to express their "deepest concerns".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23190671

Practice one starts at 9:00BST should be interesting to see if the strengthening in the tyres works, lets hope it does or it will be a quiet afternoon Sunday
 



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