Another parking ticket thread (sorry!)

Notters · Jun 30, 2013

Sorry, I know there have been loads of these threads but just seeking some reassurance.

I just walked up to Hove to pick up my car (left it at a friend's last night having had a few beers). It was parked in the private car park of some of the flats on Holland Road. My car had a "Parking enforcement contractual payment charge" on it. Now I've read many of these threads before and everyone always says "ignore it", but there seems to be a lot of advice which says it is now best to appeal, e.g.:

http://timkevan.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/challenge-to-private-parking-charge.html

and

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/pay-parking-ticket/

By the way, I was in a visitors bay, marked with a V. I didn't know a permit was needed, or where to get one from. There are admittedly signs with tiny writing on the walls which I've never looked at, and I've parked there many times before without any issues.

Advice much appreciated.

Lord Bracknell · Jun 30, 2013

Ah ... the mysterious "signs" in bays. How do you know that "V" means "visitors"? It might mean "reserved for Vera".

Eastbourne Town Hall car park has bays marked "Cllrs". Eastbourne Council thinks this means "councillors". When I used to go there regularly, with colleagues from East Sussex County Council, we used to treat the sign as meaning "callers".

Notters · Jun 30, 2013

Lord Bracknell said:
Ah ... the mysterious "signs" in bays. How do you know that "V" means "visitors"? It might mean "reserved for Vera".

Eastbourne Town Hall car park has bays marked "Cllrs". Eastbourne Council thinks this means "councillors". When I used to go there regularly, with colleagues from East Sussex County Council, we used to treat the sign as meaning "callers".

If it does mean "reserved for Vera", then either Vera has a lot of cars, or there are a lot of Veras in that part of Hove!

Notters · Jun 30, 2013

Anyone?!

BensGrandad · Jun 30, 2013

Go to pepipoo.com site for the best advice and current update on legislation etc.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 30, 2013

Notters said:
Anyone?!

Appeal to the PPC with a soft appeal. Something along the lines of :

Dear PPC,

The driver does not recognise your authority for parking charge ref xxxxxx. Please either cancel the charge or provide the POPLA appeal code.

Kinds Regards,

Print Name ( don't sign ).

If they cancel it then all good - if they don't then go to MSE or Pepipoo for wording the POPLA appeal ( and winning ! ).

Whatever you do DON'T pay it - it's a scam !

Notters · Jun 30, 2013

Westdene Seagull said:
Appeal to the PPC with a soft appeal. Something along the lines of :

Dear PPC,

The driver does not recognise your authority for parking charge ref xxxxxx. Please either cancel the charge or provide the POPLA appeal code.

Kinds Regards,

Print Name ( don't sign ).

If they cancel it then all good - if they don't then go to MSE or Pepipoo for wording the POPLA appeal ( and winning ! ).

Whatever you do DON'T pay it - it's a scam !

Does not recognise their authority? So I shouldn't mention that I didn't see any signs or anything? I certainly have no intention of paying it. I can't afford to.

hybrid_x · Jun 30, 2013

tell them your cousin was driving the car and he has gone back to bulgaria to live in the forest.....and sorry you cannot help......the send them a £40 charge for your time spent replying.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 30, 2013

Notters said:
Does not recognise their authority? So I shouldn't mention that I didn't see any signs or anything? I certainly have no intention of paying it. I can't afford to.

You're not trying to prove anything as such to the PPC ( well apart from that you know a POPLA appeal will cost them £32 and it's only binding on them ! ). You're better off just putting in minimal effort at this stage. Go and look at MSE or Pepipoo if you want in depth re-assurance. You have nothing to worry about honestly.

Notters' Dad · Jun 30, 2013

Tell them to keep the car and get another one !

Creaky · Jun 30, 2013

Nobody seems to have queried why you parked where you did when you knew it was private land.

My nephew owns a flat in a block near Horley station including a parking space in the car park which is jointly owned by the flat owners. It is a regular occurrence that when his wife returns from the school run that someone has parked in her spot - do you not think offenders should be liable to some sort of penalty for their anti-social behaviour and to deter others from behaving in the same way?

How many of us would say nothing if a stranger parked in our driveway!!

Notters · Jun 30, 2013

Creaky said:
Nobody seems to have queried why you parked where you did when you knew it was private land.

My nephew owns a flat in a block near Horley station including a parking space in the car park which is jointly owned by the flat owners. It is a regular occurrence that when his wife returns from the school run that someone has parked in her spot - do you not think offenders should be liable to some sort of penalty for their anti-social behaviour and to deter others from behaving in the same way?

How many of us would say nothing if a stranger parked in our driveway!!

Did you not read my post? I parked in one of the (many, empty) visitors parking spaces at the flats where I was visiting my friend. I had no idea that I wasn't supposed to do this. How is it in any way comparable to parking in someone's driveway? This is a very large car park.

tubaman · Jun 30, 2013

If this is a private parking area the parking infringement is against the driver not the owner of the vehicle. Your details have been obtained from the DVLA owner database but the normal method of obtaining the driver details (section 172 Road Trafic Act 1988) is not available to the land owner. Do you see their problem and what your response should be?

DanielT · Jun 30, 2013

do not admit who was driving. as tubaman is saying, they have to find someone in breach of contract. if they do not know who it is, then there is no case. Contract being: you read the sign, by reading it you agree with its terms. there is no way they can prove that the unknown driver actually read it. again, no case.

I had a PPC, ignored it. Advise I got for this specific PPC company was not even to appeal. just totally ignore. I got 6 letters saying what they may like to do and then it stopped

but read up on pepipoo

Spun Cuppa · Jun 30, 2013

I'm not having a pop, but shirley people recognise that most parking in private areas is controlled by these, admittedly illegal, practices, so it surprises me when people are shocked when they get a ticket. I don't think there are any private grounds where visitor parking isn't controlled by these bogus firms

beorhthelm · Jun 30, 2013

pay the fine for misusing the private car park, or else explain you were at a legitimate visit to one of the residents.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 30, 2013

tubaman said:
If this is a private parking area the parking infringement is against the driver not the owner of the vehicle. Your details have been obtained from the DVLA owner database but the normal method of obtaining the driver details (section 172 Road Trafic Act 1988) is not available to the land owner. Do you see their problem and what your response should be?

DanielT said:
do not admit who was driving. as tubaman is saying, they have to find someone in breach of contract. if they do not know who it is, then there is no case. Contract being: you read the sign, by reading it you agree with its terms. there is no way they can prove that the unknown driver actually read it. again, no case.

I had a PPC, ignored it. Advise I got for this specific PPC company was not even to appeal. just totally ignore. I got 6 letters saying what they may like to do and then it stopped

but read up on pepipoo

Firstly, thanks to POFA Oct 2012 the RK can now be held liable.

Secondly ignoring is no longer the recommended advice.

Westdene Seagull · Jun 30, 2013

beorhthelm said:
pay the fine for misusing the private car park, or else explain you were at a legitimate visit to one of the residents.

I have to say, I normally think your posts are intelligent, thoughtful and balanced but in this case you couldn't be more wrong. It's not a fine anyway - no company has the legal right to fine a person.

Creaky · Jun 30, 2013

Notters said:
Did you not read my post? I parked in one of the (many, empty) visitors parking spaces at the flats where I was visiting my friend. I had no idea that I wasn't supposed to do this. How is it in any way comparable to parking in someone's driveway? This is a very large car park.

If the car park you left your car in belonged to the flats you visited, (not made clear in your post), then I'm surprised your friend didn't offer you a permit to display.

beorhthelm · Jun 30, 2013

Westdene Seagull said:
It's not a fine anyway - no company has the legal right to fine a person.

quite right - its apparently a "Parking enforcement contractual payment charge". are you saying people have no right to apply and enforce parking on on thier private property, or employ an agent to do so? if not, why not? if they have the right, why assume that its not legal, and that anyone should ignore the charge?

as the story is told, it seems a fair cop. why not ask if permits required or what ever the arrangment is? if he can say visting flat x then that might be sufficient, so why is that not sensible?

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