People overlooking the difference between head coach and manager

Comedy Steve · Jun 27, 2013

Like lots of people on here, really pleased at the new appointment.

However, a lot of people on here seem to be running away with the belief that we have a new manager. Technically we haven't; it's a head coach appointment.

Now obviously there may be legal reasons for this difference (the suspension, sacking and appeal may indicate that if we were to bring in a new 'manager' Gus would be in a much stronger position for compensation), so it may be simply a cheeky way around that problem using alternative terminology.

But if we are going this route (and it looks like we are) the bulk of posts saying "who is he going to sign? Who is he going to retain?" may be pointless because this would now be the responsibility of the head of football development. Yes, OG will be involved in that process, but it won't be initiated or decided by him as a head coach. He'll play the hand he is dealt, and at best will be involved to advise and coerce potential targets by virtue of his contacts and his stature in the game, but without initiating or vetoing any player appointments (or releases).

A somewhat simplistic definition is in this article regarding what's happening at Wolves : http://www.expressandstar.com/sport...lves-look-for-head-coach-rather-than-manager/

I genuinely think the Albion is going down this management route and I'll be curious to see how it pans out as I'm not 100% sure it works in the British game.

hybrid_x · Jun 27, 2013

i hate this route "here you go coach, here are 3 players we liked and signed - play them and fit them into your formation." its a stupid format.

only the man who knows the game, formation, and players should be releasing and signing players. PERIOD.

Greavsey · Jun 27, 2013

I think it's a twist of semantics to get around the legal issues. If you watched bloom's interview the other day he clearly stated that no signings would be made until the new "manager" had his input "as obviously that's important".

Seasider78 · Jun 27, 2013

Where it hasn't worked tends to be at clubs where a technical director has been brought in where there is already an existing manager. Newcastle are a good example of this with Dennis Wise and now Joe Kinnear. This (and the profile of those candidates) undermines the manager and taking away the control from someone who previously had it is bound to cause unrest.

IMO our situation is completely different as the arrangement will be in place from the outset and this is how Oscar has worked previously so no change for him

somerset · Jun 27, 2013

Its simply a stop gap....they cannot appoint a Manager until Gus fooks off.....simple. Once he is on his bike, after appeal, OG will have Manager added to his title. Its not worth discussing it in detail, it really is as simple as that.

Pantani · Jun 27, 2013

Greavsey said:
I think it's a twist of semantics to get around the legal issues. If you watched bloom's interview the other day he clearly stated that no signings would be made until the new "manager" had his input "as obviously that's important".

This, clearly Oscar is consulted on all transfers and will not have players forced upon him. The idea is that David Burke does all the negotiation, and maintains an overall policy on transfers in the event that we need to change coach.

Justice · Jun 27, 2013

Pantani said:
This, clearly Oscar is consulted on all transfers and will not have players forced upon him. The idea is that David Burke does all the negotiation, and maintains an overall policy on transfers in the event that we need to change coach.

Yes TB said this in his interview

BensGrandad · Jun 27, 2013

It is worth noting that in every international the manager as we call him is shown as Head Coach so on that basis I would say Oscar will be responsible solely for that and the buying or selling of players and their contacts will be handled by others but he will a tremendous input into any players bought or sold.

Dorset Seagull · Jun 27, 2013

Maybe this is the direction the club wants to go in that started this whole rift with Gus in the first place. I can't imagine he would have been too happy if told they were taking transfer decisions away from him. May also answer in a round about sort of way why he snubbed the retained list as a nod to the fact he would be losing that power in the future

Pantani · Jun 27, 2013

Seasider78 said:
Where it hasn't worked tends to be at clubs where a technical director has been brought in where there is already an existing manager. Newcastle are a good example of this with Dennis Wise and now Joe Kinnear. This (and the profile of those candidates) undermines the manager and taking away the control from someone who previously had it is bound to cause unrest.

IMO our situation is completely different as the arrangement will be in place from the outset and this is how Oscar has worked previously so no change for him

Exactly, Southampton have this system. Tottenham have for quite some time, though that may be changing with Villas Boas, and the vast majority of Europe including Barcelona. It seems like the most sensible way to me in an era when managers have a life span of one and a half seasons.

Publius Ovidius · Jun 27, 2013

....but the point is that Burke and Garcia must be on the same page regards to playing style and vision.

If Burke sees an out and out big lump up front, that he really rates and Garcia doesn't want that sort of player, I wonder what the requirement is for him to play the player come what may?

I would have certainly have thought that Garcia tells Burke what sort of player he is looking for an Burke and his scouting team finds the player, does the negotiations and eventually signs him...we don't want a bergkamp situation where Gus didn't want him and wouldn't play him!

drew · Jun 27, 2013

Some people seem to be getting ahead of themselves. So he is called a head coach, for whatever reason. He will still have a very big input into which players he wants either by name or by style upon which the Burke and his team then have to go and get them. To be honest, that is probably what happens at a lot of clubs and probably not too far off what happened when Poyet was here. I doubt Poyet had any involvement in contract negotiations with agents and players.

Stat Brother · Jun 27, 2013

Although obviously different there are parallels.

Listening to Michael Vaughan talking about Aussie captain removing himself from the selection committee.
He said words to the effect of 'I wasn't part of the committee, but I always got the team I wanted'.

Sure there's the massive financial issue to deal with, but I believe the principle is the same:-

Ooooh ahhhh Oscar isn't going to have players he doesn't want forced on him into the first team.

Acker79 · Jun 27, 2013

http://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?281910-Head-coach-new-title-or-new-structure

Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo! · Jun 27, 2013

Pantani said:
This, clearly Oscar is consulted on all transfers and will not have players forced upon him. The idea is that David Burke does all the negotiation, and maintains an overall policy on transfers in the event that we need to change coach.

Didn't we have the same/similar organisation in 2011/12 when John Stephenson was at the club?

MJsGhost · Jun 27, 2013

Comedy Steve said:
Like lots of people on here, really pleased at the new appointment.

However, a lot of people on here seem to be running away with the belief that we have a new manager. Technically we haven't; it's a head coach appointment.

Now obviously there may be legal reasons for this difference (the suspension, sacking and appeal may indicate that if we were to bring in a new 'manager' Gus would be in a much stronger position for compensation), so it may be simply a cheeky way around that problem using alternative terminology.

But if we are going this route (and it looks like we are) the bulk of posts saying "who is he going to sign? Who is he going to retain?" may be pointless because this would now be the responsibility of the head of football development. Yes, OG will be involved in that process, but it won't be initiated or decided by him as a head coach. He'll play the hand he is dealt, and at best will be involved to advise and coerce potential targets by virtue of his contacts and his stature in the game, but without initiating or vetoing any player appointments (or releases).

A somewhat simplistic definition is in this article regarding what's happening at Wolves : http://www.expressandstar.com/sport...lves-look-for-head-coach-rather-than-manager/

I genuinely think the Albion is going down this management route and I'll be curious to see how it pans out as I'm not 100% sure it works in the British game.

I can't see much past this as the explanation personally...

MattBackHome · Jun 27, 2013

My guess is it's just semantics to avoid impacting on the appeal issue.

But I love the idea of having a 'head coach'. It sounds so CONTINENTAL.

Couldn't Be Hyypia · Jun 27, 2013

granny weatherwax said:
.I would have certainly have thought that Garcia tells Burke what sort of player he is looking for an Burke and his scouting team finds the player, does the negotiations and eventually signs him.

Nailed it. The coach says what he needs and the sort of player he wants. The DoF goers and finds candidates. Coach says if they are the right guys and then leaves the haggling to people who haggle professionally. Never understood why people thought a good coach by default equates to a good deal maker.

If everyone knows their boundaries then this will work well and will bring continuity to the club.

PS Gus WOULD have loathed this - he was an empire builder.

Rookie · Jun 27, 2013

somerset said:
Its simply a stop gap....they cannot appoint a Manager until Gus fooks off.....simple. Once he is on his bike, after appeal, OG will have Manager added to his title. Its not worth discussing it in detail, it really is as simple as that.

Wouldn't be so sure of that. He was Head Coach in Israel so it is a role he is used to and is very continental in its approach which he is clearly used to

beorhthelm · Jun 27, 2013

people are reading too much into the job title. it reflects the job specification and duties, but there no definitive meaning for either "head coach" or "manager". the shift to "head coach" may have been planned anyway, with more emphasis on first team, or it may be that its just a name with similar responsibilities to the previous manager to ease the transition in the current circumstances.

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