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Employment law vs FFP



Jim D

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2003
5,249
Worthing
A couple of thoughts/questions about why the saga is playing out as it is...

1. If Poyet is sacked and loses his internal appeal then I assume our position is that we won't be paying him any compo.
2. If Poyet then takes his case to tribunal how long is it likely to be before the case is heard? Could it be over a year and could we do things to make sure it does take this long? Magilton's case took well over that time.
3. If there is no decision before July 2014 then this means that we won't have to declare any of this for FFP purposes until the 2014-15 accounts are released (ie in December 2015)?
4. If we go over the FFP allowances at that point when would the penalties kick-in - January 2016 or July 2016?

It seems to me that by playing it this way we have an excellent chance of winning our case (having done everything 'by the book') and also have avoided any of these financial penalties affecting our budget for FFP purposes for at least 2, possibly 3, full seasons. If we can get into the PL by then we'll (at the least) have the parachute money to cover these costs (if we lose the case). To me this seems like a fantastic piece of planning by the club (just as long as we can get into the PL in the next 2 seasons).
 






fosters headband

Well-known member
Aug 15, 2003
5,158
Brighton
I certainly think that a lot of clubs will be watching the outcome very closely. It could in fact end the large Manager pay outs that have been paid in the past, if Bloom wins this.
 










Tubby-McFat-Fuc

Well-known member
May 2, 2013
1,845
Brighton
5. We dismiss Poyet for breach of contract, and then sue him for the cost of his contract.
 


tinycowboy

Well-known member
Aug 9, 2008
4,002
Canterbury
I don't know whether FFP follows the statutory accounts or not, but from an accounting point of view, you would have to take a charge if you thought it 'probable' (ie more likely than not) that you had a liability - ie it's not done on a cash paid out basis. That potential liability exists now - it should be in the company's accounts in 2013 if they think they will probably have to pay out. However, if the club do not think it is probable they will pay out, no charge is necessary. If, behind the scenes, they are trying to negotiate any settlement, that would be seen by auditors of the company's accounts as good evidence that a liability exists.
 




Barrel of Fun

Abort, retry, fail
The Employment Tribunal cases that I've been involved in have been heard in Brighton (City Gate House, 185 Dyke Road, Brighton).

The old man is a tribunal chairman and he said it would've likely to be held in West Croydon, if it gets that far.

As an aside, I haven't been there, but does it have a bank on the lower floor? I know one building along there is owned by the Bloom family. It could be the block opposite Good Companions pub.
 


DavidinSouthampton

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jan 3, 2012
16,589
But have we done everything by the book? Andy Naylor has stated that Tony Bloom was displeased after the Suarez stuff, for example. If that were part of the charges, was Gus ever warned about it. If "the book" (i.e. the club's internal disciplinary procedures) say, for example, that people need to receive formal warnings about things, and they don't, then it won't do your case any good.

If, on the other hand, Gus did something which amounts to grounds for instant dismissal, like theft, fraud or violence towards a member of staff, then none of that would matter.
 






severnside gull

Well-known member
May 16, 2007
24,540
By the seaside in West Somerset
there is a timetable for an internal appeal.
Typically the employee will have 21 days to lodge an appeal that must then be heard within 7 or 14 days.


I somehow expect Gus/the LMA will take it to the last day possible but once the appeal is heard and if the club upholds its decision (typically Batber will have run the disciplinary process but the appeal will be to the full board or their nominee - ie TB) then the club will be free to employ a new manager regardless of whether it then goes to an employment tribunal.

I agree with others that this is a test case for clubs and the LMA where FFP applies (remembering the EPL and clubs getting parachute payments can afford to shell out big bucks with relative impunity)
 


Jim D

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2003
5,249
Worthing
But have we done everything by the book? Andy Naylor has stated that Tony Bloom was displeased after the Suarez stuff, for example. If that were part of the charges, was Gus ever warned about it. If "the book" (i.e. the club's internal disciplinary procedures) say, for example, that people need to receive formal warnings about things, and they don't, then it won't do your case any good.

If, on the other hand, Gus did something which amounts to grounds for instant dismissal, like theft, fraud or violence towards a member of staff, then none of that would matter.

I can't say for certain as I don't have any information about the process followed but from what I've seen it would definitely appear that we are doing just that. Reading Barbers statement of today he says we're taking legal advice at every step - and I doubt that we'd be using anyone other than the best. It's going to a tribunal anyway so it's still not done and dusted.
 






Postman Pat

Well-known member
Jul 24, 2007
6,971
Coldean
I wonder if the process we followed will become the norm for clubs, not wanting to spend loads of money sacking managers they will look to sack the manager on 'breach of contract' or find a way to get them to leave of their own accord - maybe by hiring a dinosaur of a director of football who shouts his mouth off in the national press and insults club legends.....
 


Jim D

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2003
5,249
Worthing
Surely it would not be in Poyets best interests 'future career-wise' for this to run and run. Sure if he wants the money and 'clear his name' he is right to appeal but not let it drag for years.

I would think so too but Poyet doesn't seem too keen to speed this process up. If anything I would say he's deliberately slowing things down, waiting for us to panic about the start of the season and slip up so that he could get his unfair/constructive dismissal claim in. It's for this reason that I don't think our interim manager will last any longer than the time it takes to complete the appeal process. As soon as that's over he'll be out and the real manager will come in. In fact they may only start the interviewing at that time.
 


Jim D

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2003
5,249
Worthing
I wonder if the process we followed will become the norm for clubs, not wanting to spend loads of money sacking managers they will look to sack the manager on 'breach of contract' or find a way to get them to leave of their own accord - maybe by hiring a dinosaur of a director of football who shouts his mouth off in the national press and insults club legends.....

Because of the amount of time involved this process could only really be used at the end of a season. You could hardly suspend a manager in November knowing that it could take 2 months before you could start looking for a replacement.
 


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