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This "Fans not customers" rubbish



supergeorge

Member
Sep 7, 2009
44
I'm getting fed up with people going on about fans not customers all the time, I wrote the article below for amexnorthstand.com a while ago which sums up my feelings on the matter. It seems everything Paul Barber does is wrong and people spout this fans not customers rubbish all the time when in fact I don't think people actually understand what they are saying. The new Seagull Priority scheme is to make sure our development as a club continues and we are ready for the next level, if the club waits until we get there then the same people will be moaning that we didn't do it earlier! the scheme is optional after all, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to join.

Anyway, my piece.

Maybe it's just me but I really don’t get this 'Fans not customers' debate. I grew up at the Goldstone, started on the East terrace, moved to the West Stand, often flirting with the South along the way before finally arriving in the North Stand.

If we look beyond the romantic notion of the 'good old days' and look how we were treated during the Goldstone era, these were the days when we were treated just as football fans and the vast amounts of disrespect that went with it. We stood in fenced in pens, often dangerously crammed in for the bigger games, we had to avoid the odd fight when the away fans fancied having a 'go'. Having to stand far too close to people who didn't pay too much attention to personal hygiene, with no way of moving away. Does anyone remember the revolving spikes on top of the fencing when the away fans were in the East? People wouldn't stand for that now would they? The catering offerings, and I use the term catering loosely, were abysmal, really poor and no beer allowed in the later years, we used to queue for food alongside the Gents which used to omit the foulest aroma you could imagine. I'm sure someone has a picture of that area behind the North Stand and how bad it was. In those days we had no real voice, we just accepted that this was the way football fans were treated.

Football has moved on, it had to, to survive it had to change dramatically and it did, we lagged behind this revolution what with the saga that was Brighton and Hove Albion. Thankfully we are now no longer on the road to perdition but have a far brighter future, this future depends on us going in our numbers and making the most of the facilities and all that it entails.

A customer is someone who purchases goods or services from another. Whether you like it or not we are all customers. I purchase a great deal from the club, my son sees to this! This includes merchandise, tickets, food and drink and in all those interactions I want to be treated well. I want to be treated with respect, I want to be served in a reasonable time whether it's in the club shop, on the phone or in the queue for pie and a pint. I like that I can have pint with mates before and after the game, watch Sky or the highlights. I want good value (open to debate I know) and to enjoy the Amex experience. If I didn't get these things I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else. Basically if I'm treated well, I will go back for more and recommend the club to others. The club and football in general needs to continue to move forward, give the fans good service and something that they want and they will keep coming back. We cannot rely solely on the blind faith of fans to return week in week out, we need to attract new fans to the BHA family.

As customers, we can expect to be well treated, we have been given the best and that is the benchmark the club have set themselves, and we, as customers expect that level to be maintained. We have a voice and clearly that voice is being heard as we see improvements all round the place and as customers we can continue to see these improvements to our Amex experience because that is what the club wants.

If being a customer means I get all what we've got then and more to come, who am I to complain. Am I happy to be a customer? Yes I am. Am I happy to be a fan as well? Do you really need to ask?

For those who continually bang on about being fans not customers, have a think about what that really means.

The way I see it, we are Customers AND fans, and long may it continue.
 




Grombleton

Surrounded by <div>s
Dec 31, 2011
7,356
*claps*
 


Hotchilidog

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2009
8,645
Good article George. Being a customer and fan are not mutually exclusive in my book either.
 


larus

Well-known member
Agree with what you're saying. Too many people are too 'precious' IMO. Customers/Fans?, FFS, it's a word. How about the phrase, "The Customer Is King"?

Do we get treated well? Yes.
Are we entitled to know the ins and outs of the running of the BUSINESS of BHA. No.

All this crap about "We should be told about Gus, players we're targetting, poogate" etc, etc. No we shouldn't. Some may want to know, but to be successful, the BUSINESS needs to function to the best of it's ability, and that is achieved with a reasonable degree of privacy/security. If you don't understand that, then that is more a reflection on you and your 'needs', rather than the way to run a BUSINESS.
 




The Sock of Poskett

The best is yet to come (spoiler alert)
Jun 12, 2009
2,802
As soon as you pay money for something you become a customer.
A fan is someone with an interest in something, there is no money involved.

I don't see what is so hard to ****ing grasp people.

So by your definition, customers are those who buy tickets, shirts, programmes, beer, pies and the rest – and fans are armchair supporters who never go near a game but retain an 'interest' in the Albion?

It would seem that most of us are BOTH. We love supporting the team and for those of us lucky enough to be able to afford to have a season ticket or go to regular games, we're fans through and through but we're also customers who reasonably enough expect to be treated well.

Of course there needs to be proper communication channels between Albion supporters and the club, but I'm with the OP on this one – it doesn't matter how we are referred to PROVIDED we do have a voice and feel our part in the Albion story is properly valued. As had been said countless times, no fans/customers = no club.
 


Blue Valkyrie

Not seen such Bravery!
Sep 1, 2012
32,165
Valhalla
I'm getting fed up with people going on about fans not customers all the time, I wrote the article below for amexnorthstand.com a while ago which sums up my feelings on the matter. It seems everything Paul Barber does is wrong and people spout this fans not customers rubbish all the time when in fact I don't think people actually understand what they are saying. The new Seagull Priority scheme is to make sure our development as a club continues and we are ready for the next level, if the club waits until we get there then the same people will be moaning that we didn't do it earlier! the scheme is optional after all, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to join.

Anyway, my piece.

Maybe it's just me but I really don’t get this 'Fans not customers' debate. I grew up at the Goldstone, started on the East terrace, moved to the West Stand, often flirting with the South along the way before finally arriving in the North Stand.

If we look beyond the romantic notion of the 'good old days' and look how we were treated during the Goldstone era, these were the days when we were treated just as football fans and the vast amounts of disrespect that went with it. We stood in fenced in pens, often dangerously crammed in for the bigger games, we had to avoid the odd fight when the away fans fancied having a 'go'. Having to stand far too close to people who didn't pay too much attention to personal hygiene, with no way of moving away. Does anyone remember the revolving spikes on top of the fencing when the away fans were in the East? People wouldn't stand for that now would they? The catering offerings, and I use the term catering loosely, were abysmal, really poor and no beer allowed in the later years, we used to queue for food alongside the Gents which used to omit the foulest aroma you could imagine. I'm sure someone has a picture of that area behind the North Stand and how bad it was. In those days we had no real voice, we just accepted that this was the way football fans were treated.

Football has moved on, it had to, to survive it had to change dramatically and it did, we lagged behind this revolution what with the saga that was Brighton and Hove Albion. Thankfully we are now no longer on the road to perdition but have a far brighter future, this future depends on us going in our numbers and making the most of the facilities and all that it entails.

A customer is someone who purchases goods or services from another. Whether you like it or not we are all customers. I purchase a great deal from the club, my son sees to this! This includes merchandise, tickets, food and drink and in all those interactions I want to be treated well. I want to be treated with respect, I want to be served in a reasonable time whether it's in the club shop, on the phone or in the queue for pie and a pint. I like that I can have pint with mates before and after the game, watch Sky or the highlights. I want good value (open to debate I know) and to enjoy the Amex experience. If I didn't get these things I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else. Basically if I'm treated well, I will go back for more and recommend the club to others. The club and football in general needs to continue to move forward, give the fans good service and something that they want and they will keep coming back. We cannot rely solely on the blind faith of fans to return week in week out, we need to attract new fans to the BHA family.

As customers, we can expect to be well treated, we have been given the best and that is the benchmark the club have set themselves, and we, as customers expect that level to be maintained. We have a voice and clearly that voice is being heard as we see improvements all round the place and as customers we can continue to see these improvements to our Amex experience because that is what the club wants.

If being a customer means I get all what we've got then and more to come, who am I to complain. Am I happy to be a customer? Yes I am. Am I happy to be a fan as well? Do you really need to ask?

For those who continually bang on about being fans not customers, have a think about what that really means.

The way I see it, we are Customers AND fans, and long may it continue.

Agreed, but it still won't stop the anti-barber agenda and feeding frenzy on here.
 


Stevegull

New member
Sep 9, 2005
509
Lewes
Good write up. I totally agree

Why don't we all become supporters and just get on with supporting the club in whatever way we can, be it finacially through purchases or vocally at games. Unite as one FFS. Nobody is being bullied into anything they do not want to do.

Its often said that nobody is bigger than the club. Surely that applies to all individuals and not the particular employee or target at the time.

Everybody from the Chairman to the late arrivier at 3pm are all supporters
 




Gazwag

5 millionth post poster
Mar 4, 2004
30,093
Bexhill-on-Sea
I am a fan and a supporter, customers choose which brand they purchase and usually look to save money or a better service for the same outlay by pitching competitors against each other to achieve.

I am a customer of Tesco but if I am able to save money by shopping this weekend at Sainsbury's for equal or better quality then I would without any regret or second thought. People who watch football at the Amex and 75% fans/supporters and 25% fans/customers. Given the choice between watching Palace v Man Utd the same day as Brighton v Yeovil then I would never even consider the former. That is the distinction between football supporters and customers.
 


dougdeep

New member
May 9, 2004
37,732
SUNNY SEAFORD
Who used the term within the club and when?
 


I am a fan and a supporter, customers choose which brand they purchase and usually look to save money or a better service for the same outlay by pitching competitors against each other to achieve.

I am a customer of Tesco but if I am able to save money by shopping this weekend at Sainsbury's for equal or better quality then I would without any regret or second thought. People who watch football at the Amex and 75% fans/supporters and 25% fans/customers. Given the choice between watching Palace v Man Utd the same day as Brighton v Yeovil then I would never even consider the former. That is the distinction between football supporters and customers.

This.

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own, I am not a CUSTOMER I am a FAN.
 
Last edited:




wardy wonder land

Active member
Dec 10, 2007
761
As soon as you pay money for something you become a customer.
A fan is someone with an interest in something, there is no money involved.
.

If you pay money to something without expecting much in return you become a supporter


football 100 years ago was all about entertainment, the professional players paid to entertain customers

as things have progress, customers become "addicted" one one club and become supporters

"fans" is short for fanatic yes ? so should really fall under the supporter umbrella

but, fan is generally used as a term for anybody that follows the unps & downs of a particular club for Banter" in the office/pub/playground



Armchair Fans (of Man utd for example) follow MU, support SKY and are customers of NIKE (also c0cks)
 


Common as Mook

Not Posh as Fook
Jul 26, 2004
5,627
I'm getting fed up with people going on about fans not customers all the time, I wrote the article below for amexnorthstand.com a while ago which sums up my feelings on the matter. It seems everything Paul Barber does is wrong and people spout this fans not customers rubbish all the time when in fact I don't think people actually understand what they are saying. The new Seagull Priority scheme is to make sure our development as a club continues and we are ready for the next level, if the club waits until we get there then the same people will be moaning that we didn't do it earlier! the scheme is optional after all, if you don't agree with it, you don't have to join.

Anyway, my piece.

Maybe it's just me but I really don’t get this 'Fans not customers' debate. I grew up at the Goldstone, started on the East terrace, moved to the West Stand, often flirting with the South along the way before finally arriving in the North Stand.

If we look beyond the romantic notion of the 'good old days' and look how we were treated during the Goldstone era, these were the days when we were treated just as football fans and the vast amounts of disrespect that went with it. We stood in fenced in pens, often dangerously crammed in for the bigger games, we had to avoid the odd fight when the away fans fancied having a 'go'. Having to stand far too close to people who didn't pay too much attention to personal hygiene, with no way of moving away. Does anyone remember the revolving spikes on top of the fencing when the away fans were in the East? People wouldn't stand for that now would they? The catering offerings, and I use the term catering loosely, were abysmal, really poor and no beer allowed in the later years, we used to queue for food alongside the Gents which used to omit the foulest aroma you could imagine. I'm sure someone has a picture of that area behind the North Stand and how bad it was. In those days we had no real voice, we just accepted that this was the way football fans were treated.

Football has moved on, it had to, to survive it had to change dramatically and it did, we lagged behind this revolution what with the saga that was Brighton and Hove Albion. Thankfully we are now no longer on the road to perdition but have a far brighter future, this future depends on us going in our numbers and making the most of the facilities and all that it entails.

A customer is someone who purchases goods or services from another. Whether you like it or not we are all customers. I purchase a great deal from the club, my son sees to this! This includes merchandise, tickets, food and drink and in all those interactions I want to be treated well. I want to be treated with respect, I want to be served in a reasonable time whether it's in the club shop, on the phone or in the queue for pie and a pint. I like that I can have pint with mates before and after the game, watch Sky or the highlights. I want good value (open to debate I know) and to enjoy the Amex experience. If I didn't get these things I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else. Basically if I'm treated well, I will go back for more and recommend the club to others. The club and football in general needs to continue to move forward, give the fans good service and something that they want and they will keep coming back. We cannot rely solely on the blind faith of fans to return week in week out, we need to attract new fans to the BHA family.

As customers, we can expect to be well treated, we have been given the best and that is the benchmark the club have set themselves, and we, as customers expect that level to be maintained. We have a voice and clearly that voice is being heard as we see improvements all round the place and as customers we can continue to see these improvements to our Amex experience because that is what the club wants.

If being a customer means I get all what we've got then and more to come, who am I to complain. Am I happy to be a customer? Yes I am. Am I happy to be a fan as well? Do you really need to ask?

For those who continually bang on about being fans not customers, have a think about what that really means.

The way I see it, we are Customers AND fans, and long may it continue.

Spot on.
 






glasfryn

cleaning up cat sick
Nov 29, 2005
20,261
somewhere in Eastbourne
the customer is always right
 


Seagull73

Sienna's Heaven
Jul 26, 2003
3,382
Not Lewes
What's wrong with consulting the fans first? If the club and fans work together, like a community and fan centric club should, these marketing decisions could be made without any risk of boycott or resentment

Any business worth it's salt knows that feedback from it's customers, and acting on it, is the number one priority to ensuring it builds new customers and retain's existing ones.

How does it do that? It treats it's customers with the respect they deserve for being a customer. It continues to build loyalty by treating customers in the way they expect, which in turn drives new business, and helps deliver against the promises they make.

Now on matchdays, by and large, that happens. Yes there are a few pies that people want but don't get, but on the whole, for a football match, it's pretty good. However, there is just a bit too much coming out of the club that is driving negativity, and ultimately affecting the 'branding' that is clearly trying to be created.

For a football club with it's most-recent history built on engagement and dialogue with it's customers, all of the latest programmes for change are not being handled with either sensitivity or any acceptable level of communication. These moves are not good developments are not good news for this football club in my view.
 




Guy Fawkes

The voice of treason
Sep 29, 2007
8,187
If a customer is not happy with the service at BHAFC he will go find another service, or in this case another franchise. Fans, however, will stick with the club no matter what. That's not saying fans aren't customers too, but it's not all that we are - and this new maxim "fans not customers" has arisen because some fans feel as if they are being treated only as customers, with the unwelcome marketing strategies which devalue the community & fan centric ethos that has made our club so great in the past - when the reality is that we would give our money to the club without any resentment anyway.

Barbers marketing and branding decisions are continually made without any consultation with the fans and it is clear that many of us don't agree with them, or we think they should be done in a different way.

Transparency, honesty, communication from the club is all that is required to make fans feel as if they are fans again, not just customers.

Except some jump on the anti brigade without even knowing the details of what is being announced (such as the new membership scheme) which is sadly where your point fails miserably.
 






Hamilton

Well-known member
NSC Patreon
Jul 7, 2003
12,393
Brighton
If a customer is not happy with the service at BHAFC he will go find another service, or in this case another franchise. Fans, however, will stick with the club no matter what. That's not saying fans aren't customers too, but it's not all that we are - and this new maxim "fans not customers" has arisen because some fans feel as if they are being treated only as customers, with the unwelcome marketing strategies which devalue the community & fan centric ethos that has made our club so great in the past - when the reality is that we would give our money to the club without any resentment anyway.

Barbers marketing and branding decisions are continually made without any consultation with the fans and it is clear that many of us don't agree with them, or we think they should be done in a different way.

Transparency, honesty, communication from the club is all that is required to make fans feel as if they are fans again, not just customers.

Agree wholeheartedly.

I enjoyed the OP's piece. Good read.

I'd raise a couple of points for consideration.

"If I didn't get (good service) I wouldn't want to go back, I wouldn't recommend the club or the Amex to anyone else."

I disagree with this. I think the OP does as well, bearing in mind that he put up with the Goldstone, as we all did. You choose your club, and when it has chosen you then you're stuck with it. The Amex is 1000 times better that the Broadfield Stadium, but I'll bet their are Crawley fans that wouldn't dream of changing teams just because the customer service is better.

This is also the issue I take with the point made by another poster that "the customer is king." That's true where there is choice. With football, we have no choice. It's the same with the railways. Are you a passenger or a customer? You're both, but as a passenger you have next to no choice as to who you travel with.

We have no right as fans to know the details of specific management decisions as they are being played out, BUT we do have the right to have a voice. In fact, we have a responsibility to make our voice known. We've seen what happens when our voices are not raised. This is why NSC is so good.

As for where all this "customer" language came from, I'm not so sure. Certainly the word has been used by the club - after all, it's in the club charter:

http://www.seagulls.co.uk/documents/club-charter229-406421.pdf

It's at least reassuring the the word "supporter" gets twice as many mentions as the word "customer."
 



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