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Monsato - Anyone Protest Yesterday?







H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
Pff, a dislike of Monsanto I can understand, although most of it's 'evils' are commited by scores of other big businesses without the same furor. But any protest against GM technology as a whole is ignorant and backwards.
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,102
McNulty's Other Kidney said:
Pff, a dislike of Monsanto I can understand, although most of it's 'evils' are commited by scores of other big businesses without the same furor. But any protest against GM technology as a whole is ignorant and backwards.
Click to expand...

Do you think that GM products should be labelled as such? I think it would be nice to be givena choice.
 


N

Napper

Well-known member
Jul 9, 2003
23,872
Sussex
Be nice to be labelled so people have the choice but lets face it ......... We all die in the end and it isn't going to make massive difference in the long run.

Far more things to worry about
 


beorhthelm

beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
35,300
BadFish said:
Do you think that GM products should be labelled as such? I think it would be nice to be givena choice.
Click to expand...

my tuppence, i do think it should be labeled so people can decide. and more likly ignore, showing that the vast majority dont give a monkeys - see Made in Britain, free range, organic etc. I think the patents on crops should be outlawed, or invalidated where cross polination occurs. but the anti-gmo movement are really just latterday Luddites. theres nothing wrong with genetically modifiying foods, we've been selectivly breeding crops for thousands of years so to cry about the fact its between a tomato and a fish is bit silly. the health concerns are irrational, you'd eat both the tomato and the fish, what does it matter if one has got some genes artificialy from the other?
 




H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
BadFish said:
Do you think that GM products should be labelled as such? I think it would be nice to be givena choice.
Click to expand...

I don't see anything wrong with that, although it won't do much to stop Monsanto if that's your objective. You'd think the small number of people who care enough could do their own research though really.
 


The Buttery Biscuit Base

The Buttery Biscuit Base

New member
Jan 4, 2010
1,417
Flying progressively from right to left
Most domesticated animals cattle, sheep, pigs, cats, dogs & horses to name a few have been through some degree of genetic change for human benefit.

Carrots, Potatoes, bananas, grains have to some extent have been bred to be resistant to certain diseases, to be bigger, more productive over centuries.

In my opinion, its just speeding up evolution. I think its a lot of hoo-haa about nothing!
 


L

Landgull

New member
Oct 30, 2009
522
BadFish said:
Missed it my self in Melbourne but looks like there was a fair turnout around the world.

http://rt.com/news/march-against-monsanto-gmo-776/

More about Monsato here
I didn't join protest as was not aware but word has it that a number of their products are causing major problems, although nature will always find a way to fight back.
I avoid when I can GMO but this is with great difficulty as food companies are capable of hiding ingredients under other names.
I also gather that their weed killer has been found to have the opposite effect in some overseas regions where the weeds have fought back and taken over the land to the extent that it has become useless for farming putting the farmers out of business.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/12/14-5

http://www.naturalnews.com/NoGMO.html

http://responsibletechnology.org/
Click to expand...

Reply ends.
 




L

Landgull

New member
Oct 30, 2009
522
Sorry BADFISH my reply seems to have found its way into you posting.
Starts: I didn;t join....
Ends: out of business.

Reply ends.
 


L

Lewes' best seagull

New member
Jan 31, 2008
1,145
In my opinion, it's not GM crops which are the issue; more that Monsanto have such oppressive monopoly power. Rather than selling farmers seeds which will last years, they ensure they have to buy from them year after year, and as they're (obviously) expensive to make, no other firms have a chance in providing the crops.

Monsanto has blood on its hands as it provided the US government with Agent Orange for use in Vietnam, as well as multiple accusations of child labour and chemical catastrophes.
 


Herr Tubthumper

Herr Tubthumper

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
59,487
The Fatherland
Lewes' best seagull said:
In my opinion, it's not GM crops which are the issue; more that Monsanto have such oppressive monopoly power. Rather than selling farmers seeds which will last years, they ensure they have to buy from them year after year, and as they're (obviously) expensive to make, no other firms have a chance in providing the crops.
Click to expand...

This in my feeling on the issue as well.
 




H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
Lewes' best seagull said:
In my opinion, it's not GM crops which are the issue; more that Monsanto have such oppressive monopoly power. Rather than selling farmers seeds which will last years, they ensure they have to buy from them year after year, and as they're (obviously) expensive to make, no other firms have a chance in providing the crops.
Click to expand...

The thing is, there are pretty simple scientific explanations for this stuff.

Hybrid Vigour has long been observed but isn't fully understood. It means that seeds that are first generation hybrids (basically means they have different parents) are around 20% more productive than seeds which are crosses between these hybrids (remember plants can self-fertilize). This is a benefit to farmers because they can get higher yields out of their land. Generating F1 hybrids requires a decent amount of manual labour, as individuals plants must be hand fertilised, which is why they cost more. There's nothing stopping a farmer from reusing the seeds from these plants next year except that the plants will (entirely naturally, and through no fault of Monsanto's) become slowly less productive each year, so farmers choose to buy a new set of F1 hybrid seeds.
 




BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,102
Lewes' best seagull said:
In my opinion, it's not GM crops which are the issue; more that Monsanto have such oppressive monopoly power. Rather than selling farmers seeds which will last years, they ensure they have to buy from them year after year, and as they're (obviously) expensive to make, no other firms have a chance in providing the crops.

Monsanto has blood on its hands as it provided the US government with Agent Orange for use in Vietnam, as well as multiple accusations of child labour and chemical catastrophes.
Click to expand...

it is these kinds of business practices (and more) that the protests are all about rather than a blanket protest against GMO's themselves.
 




BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,102
Landgull said:
Sorry BADFISH my reply seems to have found its way into you posting.
Starts: I didn;t join....
Ends: out of business.

Reply ends.
Click to expand...

As your reply is stronger, mine will be wiped out....no matter
 


BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,102
Although I do not categorically say that GMOs are dangerous, I am not convinced that GMOs are safe for our consumption. I am even less convinced that the necessary science has been done to prove that GMOs are safe for us and the environment. I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff so may have missed the defining study but there are enough people out there who share my concerns for me to remain skeptical. Just like I am told that food additives pose no threat to me or my family, yet i have noticed a marked change in our health and happiness since removing them from our diet. A view shared by enough people in the UK to have persuaded food companies to remove them from many products.

http://www.ibtimes.com/gmo-health-risks-what-scientific-evidence-says-1161099
http://aaemonline.org/gmopost.html
http://www.responsibletechnology.org/gmo-dangers
 




H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
BadFish said:
it is these kinds of business practices (and more) that the protests are all about rather than a blanket protest against GMO's themselves.
Click to expand...

You were perfectly happy to ignore my thread explaining those business practices. You're only sceptical of GM because you've been we'll brainwashed by the media and health food industry led anti GMO campaign which mercifully has died down in the last 5 years. GM is an extension of natural processes and most of the fear of it comes from a lack of understanding of the simple scientific principles that back it up.
 




BadFish

BadFish

Huge Member
Oct 19, 2003
17,102
McNulty's Other Kidney said:
You were perfectly happy to ignore my thread explaining those business practices. You're only sceptical of GM because you've been we'll brainwashed by the media and health food industry led anti GMO campaign which mercifully has died down in the last 5 years. GM is an extension of natural processes and most of the fear of it comes from a lack of understanding of the simple scientific principles that back it up.
Click to expand...

I didn't ignore your post about business practices I just decided not to respond to it as to me excusing one company's behaviour because others do it as well is not something I buy into. Another reason and another thing I don't buy into is calling someone who disagrees with you "ignorant and backwards".

You seem entirely convinced that GMOs are perfectly safe for consumption and will have no ill effects on the environment yet call me (someone who remains skeptical but not convinced either way) brainwashed (by that dastardly and evil health food industry!)

Perhaps you could help me out and reverse my brainwashing by providing me with some of the information that has made you so convinced of the safety of GMOs.

As I said I have not written off GMOs as dangerous for us and the environment but remain skeptical of some types of genetic modification and their effects. I remain skeptical because I don't believe that appropriate scientific research into GMO's effects havs been done before they have been used across the world.

I note that a number of governments share my skepticism and have banned certain Monsato GM products

http://www.foodfirst.org/en/Poland+bans+GMO+corn
 
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H

Husty

Mooderator
Oct 18, 2008
11,991
The post I was talking about was #12 which actually contained some science.

I'd like to hear about what types of GM you are unconvinced or uncertain about but you don't provide any examples at any point.

Instead, I'll show you why I think it is a much better solution than what is currently done. Many plants released onto the market today were produced using Accelerated Seed Mutagenesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutation_breeding) where plants are bombarded with chemicals or radiation, in order to cause mutations. These mutations will occur very rapidly, completely at random and are impossible to trace. All the seeds from these plants are planted and grown and then the ones which may have gained some beneficial traits are selected. Despite using toxic chemicals and high levels of radiation in abundance, there is almost no control over this industry and I can guarantee that a large amount of the products we buy from the supermarket will have some ingredients that were produced by this source.

So again, there is no or limited genetic profiling of what gene changes have occurred in these plants to lead to the new traits we observe, there is almost no regulation of the industry or labelling of products and yet there's zero public outcry.

Compare this with GM, where known genes, with a known sequence and function are added into a specific and well-defined region of a another's chromosome. There's a lot of regulation and plants may be grown for multiple generations and observed before they stand a chance of being released onto the market. Again if you could give some specific examples of your concerns it'd be easier to address.
 


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