More hate crime extremism....

wellquickwoody · Apr 4, 2013

Nothing funny about the original crime, but six years later to be classified as a hate crime, really?

m.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/03/manchester-police-goths-punks-hate-crime

Any assault, fatal or otherwise, is a crime, but a hate crime FFS!

Does this not just ridicule the whole notion of 'hate crimes'? So now this term would include crimes committed against ethnic groups, religious groups, LGBT groups, possibly others I have not mentioned, and Goths, Punks and Demos? What about Mods, Skinheads, Bikers, Casuals, WFH's?

Are Manchester Police really wasting their media resources on announcements like this, not too mention resources on the implementation of a new policy, or are they sensibly using the inevitable media attention to highlight a growing issue?

The Optimist · Apr 4, 2013

If someone is attacked for no reason other than the fact that they're a goth, then yes I'd class it as the same thing as attacking someone for no reason other than the colour of their skin.

Pogue Mahone · Apr 4, 2013

All crimes commited against anyone in any of the minority groups mentioned is clearly a hate crime if the reason for the attack is nothing more than that they are a member of the minority group.

Hotchilidog · Apr 4, 2013

Not really, goths and emos etc are attacked purely because of who they are and therefore it is a hate crime. Why some people feel the need to attack someone just because they do not conform to their idea of what is 'normal' is despicable and people should be free to be who they are without fear of physical or verbal abuse.

If you want to be angry at someone, be angry at the social inadequates who get their kicks from picking on other people purely because they are 'different'.

beorhthelm · Apr 4, 2013

the thing is, will they treat offenses where the perptrators are all of one of these groups as a hate crime too, and punish the goths or punks accordingly?

Return of the Rev · Apr 4, 2013

So punching an Asian to the floor because he is a Goth is now as bad as doing it because he is Asian,wow what a strange world

Blue Valkyrie · Apr 4, 2013

The Optimist said:
If someone is attacked for no reason other than the fact that they're a goth, then yes I'd class it as the same thing as attacking someone for no reason other than the colour of their skin.

Very true.

Pogue Mahone · Apr 4, 2013

beorhthelm said:
the thing is, will they treat offenses where the perptrators are all of one of these groups as a hate crime too, and punish the goths or punks accordingly?

What are you on about? It doesn't matter who the attacker is. If they are attacking someone because of who or what they are, and no other reason, it's a hate crime.

cunning fergus · Apr 4, 2013

beorhthelm said:
the thing is, will they treat offenses where the perptrators are all of one of these groups as a hate crime too, and punish the goths or punks accordingly?

Indeed. Notwithstandng the classification context, the implication is surely that anyone attacking these new groups will receive an increased tarriff from the courts.............as any "hate" crime would.

If they are going to piss about with the categorisation of "societal" groups as victims of crime I would rather they classified attacks on pensioners...................young healthy emos can fight back.

Pogue Mahone · Apr 4, 2013

cunning fergus said:
Indeed. Notwithstandng the classification context, the implication is surely that anyone attacking these new groups will receive an increased tarriff from the courts.............as any "hate" crime would.

If they are going to piss about with the categorisation of "societal" groups as victims of crime I would rather they classified attacks on pensioners...................young healthy emos can fight back.

Have you never met an emo?

Pogue Mahone · Apr 4, 2013

cunning fergus said:
Indeed. Notwithstandng the classification context, the implication is surely that anyone attacking these new groups will receive an increased tarriff from the courts.............as any "hate" crime would.

If they are going to piss about with the categorisation of "societal" groups as victims of crime I would rather they classified attacks on pensioners...................young healthy emos can fight back.

It's not about 'new groups'. It's about whether someone is being targeted because those attacking them don't like what they 'are', and attack for this reason alone. That's clearly a hate crime, isn't it?

El Presidente · Apr 4, 2013

Are gingers still fair game?

Pogue Mahone · Apr 4, 2013

El Presidente said:
Are gingers still fair game?

No we're not.

Hotchilidog · Apr 4, 2013

Pogue Mahone said:
It's not about 'new groups'. It's about whether someone is being targeted because those attacking them don't like what they 'are', and attack for this reason alone. That's clearly a hate crime, isn't it?

Yes it is. It seems pretty clear and simple to me.

Bakero · Apr 4, 2013

cunning fergus said:
Indeed. Notwithstandng the classification context, the implication is surely that anyone attacking these new groups will receive an increased tarriff from the courts.............as any "hate" crime would.

Your inference is wrong: "Manchester police said the change would enable officers to give more support to victims of anti-punk or anti-Goth crime. But it won't necessarily mean tougher sentences.

Although British judicial guidelines call for people convicted of hate crimes to receive tougher sentences, the Manchester decision has not been recognised nationally."

beorhthelm · Apr 4, 2013

Pogue Mahone said:
What are you on about? It doesn't matter who the attacker is. If they are attacking someone because of who or what they are, and no other reason, it's a hate crime.

exactly, the "hate crime" tag is denoted by the victim belonging to a defined group. but apparently members of that group could attack someone not on the prescribed list and its not a hate crime. two punks pick on a white lad, they've committed a regular assault. two white lads pick on a punk and its classified a "hate crime". is that right? or are you thinking there are no violent punks, goths, blacks, asians, christians, muslims, or lesbians?

LE19 · Apr 4, 2013

beorhthelm said:
exactly, the "hate crime" tag is denoted by the victim belonging to a defined group. but apparently members of that group could attack someone not on the prescribed list and its not a hate crime. two punks pick on a white lad, they've committed a regular assault. two white lads pick on a punk and its classified a "hate crime". is that right? or are you thinking there are no violent punks, goths, blacks, asians, christians, muslims, or lesbians?

Is not just who picks on who, it's WHY they pick on someone.

Norman Potting · Apr 4, 2013

Why don't they just agree to come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who commits violent unprovoked assault on someone else whatever category they are deemed to be in? Am I missing something, but what actually does pigeon-holing everyone in this manner achieve in practical terms?

oldboy · Apr 4, 2013

Whites are a minority in london.if an ethnic attacks a white why is not racial.

The Modfather · Apr 4, 2013

surely any unprovocked attack should be deemed a hate crime.

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