- Aug 7, 2003
- 7,795
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Farewell to the NHS
- Thread starter The Antikythera Mechanism
- Start date
dougdeep
New member
Cuts had to be made. It was getting totally out of hand. You can't have it both ways.
Horses Arse
Well-known member
Oh dear.......
Raleigh Chopper
New member
Cameron said " I am a huge supporter of the NHS I will never forget the care and treatment that they gave to my severely disabled son, Ivan (who sadly died) there will be no top down changes to the NHS.
Bringing your dead son into the argument, and then lying, does it get any lower than that, even for a politician, surely this excuse of a PM cant last much longer.
Bringing your dead son into the argument, and then lying, does it get any lower than that, even for a politician, surely this excuse of a PM cant last much longer.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
That's correct. At least someone has pointed out Labour in this as well.
Pogue Mahone
Well-known member
- Apr 30, 2011
- 10,733
Both ways? What are you on about?
The overwhelming majority of people want a well resourced NHS where healthcare is offered on the basis of what patients need rather than what is in their wallet. This has been shown in polls again and again. The Tories didn't put these NHS reforms to the electorate - they knew that they would be unpopular.
They're destroying, rather than cutting, everything that has made us a society that looks after those less fortunate than themselves.
D
Deleted member 22389
Guest
I'm honestly surprised by this scaremongering. I thought it was only The Daily Mail and Express that did this, well according some posters on here lol.
Billy the Fish
Technocrat
P
It's old news, this process has been happening for the last 10 years, mabye more. I remember talking to my late grandad about it while he was having cancer treatment.
It's old news, this process has been happening for the last 10 years, mabye more. I remember talking to my late grandad about it while he was having cancer treatment.
I work in the health service. Initially this isnt about cuts. Its about ideology and the trick that the Tories have pulled off is a) they are so complicated and long winded that the public dont know whats going on b) that the labour party set the ground work with foundation trusts and pfi and c) that initially the public will not see any change i.e they will still see their gp free of charge and still have their hip replaced free of charge.
But the ideolgical changes put through will alter the basis on healthcare is offered. The changes set in stone competetive tendering. This isnt just cleaning and laundry or even accountancy and HR. This goes much further to the heart of commisioning services. The Tories talk about Gp led commisioning but they came into medicine to treat not manage. The gps will either sub contract to a private contractor or simply lose out on the bid in the first place. Eventually healthcare will be commisioned by private providers whose goal is to maximise profit to its shareholders.
The fear is that services will start to whither or stop altogether. Iniatally these services will be things like IVF where public opnion is split. Then the same cost analysis will be used for treatment of the elderly i.e is it worth providing a hip replacement to those over a certain age. Unless of course you have private insurance.
The next logical step is then for the govt to alter the way healthcare is paid for. Instead of taxation it will be via insurance. Great if you are healthy and never need a gp or hospital. Not so good if you born with a condition or cant afford insurance or let your insurance cover drop.
The changes made to commisioning of services is the most serious change ever made to the NHS it goes to the heart of how healthcare is supplied to you and me.
But the ideolgical changes put through will alter the basis on healthcare is offered. The changes set in stone competetive tendering. This isnt just cleaning and laundry or even accountancy and HR. This goes much further to the heart of commisioning services. The Tories talk about Gp led commisioning but they came into medicine to treat not manage. The gps will either sub contract to a private contractor or simply lose out on the bid in the first place. Eventually healthcare will be commisioned by private providers whose goal is to maximise profit to its shareholders.
The fear is that services will start to whither or stop altogether. Iniatally these services will be things like IVF where public opnion is split. Then the same cost analysis will be used for treatment of the elderly i.e is it worth providing a hip replacement to those over a certain age. Unless of course you have private insurance.
The next logical step is then for the govt to alter the way healthcare is paid for. Instead of taxation it will be via insurance. Great if you are healthy and never need a gp or hospital. Not so good if you born with a condition or cant afford insurance or let your insurance cover drop.
The changes made to commisioning of services is the most serious change ever made to the NHS it goes to the heart of how healthcare is supplied to you and me.
Non- socialist Bliar and his regime was very much part of this too.
Horton's halftime iceberg
Blooming Marvellous
Well the Independent and Guardian are both pretty mainstream
The day Britain changes: welfare reforms and coalition cuts take effect | Politics | guardian.co.uk
Unfortunately these changes were started by New Labour which has allowed the Tories a great platform to get stuck in, so with both mainstream parties supporting them the opposition has little chance. But it does feel like we should be out on the street demanding a stop to radical change. Lets hope we do not become like the states with regard to healthcare in the future.
The day Britain changes: welfare reforms and coalition cuts take effect | Politics | guardian.co.uk
Unfortunately these changes were started by New Labour which has allowed the Tories a great platform to get stuck in, so with both mainstream parties supporting them the opposition has little chance. But it does feel like we should be out on the street demanding a stop to radical change. Lets hope we do not become like the states with regard to healthcare in the future.
glasfryn
cleaning up cat sick
the tory B******s tried to do this the last time and failed by the time they get their act together they will be OUT
HastingsSeagull
Well-known member
Mackenzie
Old Brightonian
I was in Tredegar this morning. My great uncle used to help write Aneurin Bevan's speeches.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Control of NHS budgets has passed to the GPs. I'm sure that this seemed to be an attractive idea when it was first floated.
What the GPs are now beginning to realise is that controlling budgets means taking charge of how services are commissioned. And the government is telling the GPs that they will have to ensure that ALL services are subject to formal commissioning procedures, including competitive tendering where more than one potential supplier exists.
The GPs are now waking up to the fact that they will have LESS time for medicine, since they will need to spend much more time being service commissioners. Especially since the rules that apply to the procurement of public services are incredibly complex.
In my opinion, doctors should do medicine and public procurement processes should be done by experienced administrators. Getting the doctors organising competitive tendering exercises is a complete mis-use of their talents.
And I speak as someone with years of experience supplying non-medical services to the NHS.
What the GPs are now beginning to realise is that controlling budgets means taking charge of how services are commissioned. And the government is telling the GPs that they will have to ensure that ALL services are subject to formal commissioning procedures, including competitive tendering where more than one potential supplier exists.
The GPs are now waking up to the fact that they will have LESS time for medicine, since they will need to spend much more time being service commissioners. Especially since the rules that apply to the procurement of public services are incredibly complex.
In my opinion, doctors should do medicine and public procurement processes should be done by experienced administrators. Getting the doctors organising competitive tendering exercises is a complete mis-use of their talents.
And I speak as someone with years of experience supplying non-medical services to the NHS.
beorhthelm
A. Virgo, Football Genius
- Jul 21, 2003
- 35,303
it is already via insurance - NI. as long as healthcare is provided free at point of delivery, no one will care much, because estentially there's no difference. you're right its about ideology, and frankly for 95% of the population they dont really mind how the services are delivered as long as they are delivered. only when the delivery is interupted will they object, but commissioning and other sorts of administrative shenanigens behind the scenes dont mean delivery has to change, so the masses will be content. at the end of day, if a service can provided for lower cost, most effeciently and effectivly, it should be. we shouldn't be wedded to old methods. if private contractors have deliver the same service for less, keeping a slice of the savings for themselves, then why on earth not let them?